Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on December 14, 2008 By Draginol In Politics

I'm not personally into guns but I am a strong believer in the right for citizens to legally purchase pretty much any type of precision target weapon (i.e. guns).

One of the strawman arguments I hear often is "Why not let people have nukes then?" and the reason is that the constitution intended citizens to bear arms -- specifically weapons that have a relatively high degree of precision.  Explosives, canons, etc. are not precision weapons.

Now before someone gets hung up on the above paragraph and starts naming various non-gun weapons that are arguably precise let me get to the meat of this discussion:

Guns are the great equalizer.  Societies in which citizens have few guns also tend to have more crime when comparing similar demographics. Gun opponents tend to fixate at overall crime rates or cherry pick types of crime ("gun violence") but when you compare apples and apples (like two middle class families in the US or UK) you find that the society that has guns tends to suffer less from crime.

That's because criminals have to think twice before doing a home invasion.  Home invasion, in Britain, is relatively common. Former Beatle George Harrison was attacked in his home by an intruder and severely injured.  In the US, home invasions are very rare because the would-be intruder never knows when the residents might be armed.

I don't want to have to rely on a benevolent government for all my protection. I expect to have the right to defend myself and my family -- with lethal force if necessary.

Certainly, there are a few nuts out there and some of them (not many but some) do purchase their weapons legally. But that's going to be true with anything. More people die due to cars and alcohol and I don't think we're going to be outlawing those things any time soon either.

Update: 

As if to help prove my point...

Found on this blog today:

An intended rape victim shot and killed her attacker this morning in Cape Girardeau when he broke into her home to rape her a second time, police said.

The 57-year-old woman shot Ronnie W. Preyer, 47, a registered sex offender, in the chest with a shotgun when he broke through her locked basement door.

The woman told police he was the same man who raped her several days earlier. Officials do not intend to seek charges against her.

In the first incident, the woman heard glass breaking in her basement about midnight on Saturday. She went to leave the house, and the man attacked when she opened the front door. He punched her in the face and then forced her into a bedroom, where he raped her, said H. Morley Swingle, prosecuting attorney in Cape Girardeau County.

The victim reported the crime to police, and her landlord repaired the broken window.

She was home alone again Friday about 2:15 a.m. when Preyer broke the same basement window. The victim was awake watching television, when Preyer switched off the electricity to her house.

She tried to call 911, but couldn’t because the power was off. She got a shotgun and waited as the man began banging on the basement door. She fired when Preyer came crashing through the door. When Preyer collapsed, the woman escaped and went to a neighbor’s home, where she called police. Officers, who arrived within a minute, found a bleeding Preyer stumbling away from the house. He was taken to St. Francis Medical Center, where he died several hours later.

Swingle said the victim identified Preyer as the attacker in both incidents. Preyer, of Jackson, Mo., had wet caulking from the recently repaired basement window on his clothing when he was shot.

“I will not be filing any sort of charge against this 57-year-old woman, who was clearly justified under the law in shooting this intruder in her home,” Swingle said.

Thank God we haven't given the government the ability to take our guns.


Comments (Page 6)
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on Dec 22, 2008

Did he say that Canada was a nation state?

But he claimed USA's uniqueness as not being a nation state, among other things. "Unique" means "only one".

on Dec 22, 2008

So... You forgot that Canada exists? Because if you do not, please explain to me how Canada is a country composed of one cultural background or race.

No, I stated that was one part of the uniqueness.  If you read my response again, I stated that we were not a nation state AND we threw off the yoke of the Monarchy that ruled us.  I think Canada fails on the second part (basically we started from scratch and created a governance that had not existed before - Canada stayed on the teat of Mother ENgland until she blessed them with semi-independance).

False. You created colonies out of nothing. You created a nation out of those colonies.

False.  England created Colonies.  We created a nation.  WHen I say out of nothing, I mean we became self governing without having to rely on the structure of the previous ruling body - OR of a model taken from another functioning example.

on Dec 22, 2008

But he claimed USA's uniqueness as not being a nation state, among other things. "Unique" means "only one".

There are several ways of not being a nation state. Canada and Australia follow pretty much the same model. The US are different. If unique I cannot say, but certainly very different from most others.

 

we threw off the yoke of the Monarchy that ruled us.  I think Canada fails on the second part

I don't think the Canadians saw the monarchy as a yoke the or even see the monarchy as a yoke now.

Canadian republicanism is rarely an advocate of more freedom. Usually it's left-wingers and nationalists who want to end the monarchy.

Canada thus didn't "fail". They just didn't want to create a new state.

Either way, neither the US nor Canada are nation states, and Canada and the US are certainly very different.

Nation state and "not nation state" are not the only two models.

There are city states (country defined by the city), duchies and principalities (country defined by land ownership), empires (country defined by one law governing more than one people without representation of those peoples), federations (country defined by one law governing more than one entity or people with representation of those entities or peoples) etc.. Nation states can be federations (but not empires). Federations require definition of the entities making up the federation. The entities can be nation states, duchies, empires etc..

(I love lists.)

Examples:

1. Nation states: France, Germany (which is also a federation), Israel, Turkey (see below), Spain (see below)

2. City states: Bremen, Hamburg, Vatican (also something else)

3. Duchies/principalities: Wales (also nation state), Luxenburg, Monaco, Andorra, Vatican (a member of many categories)

4. Empires: the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Iranian Empire (until 1979), the US (around 1900)

5. Federations: the US, Germany (also a nation state), the United Kingdom, Austria-Hungary (a federation made up of two empires)

Note that some nation states are nation states by virtue of not recognising other people living in the state (Spain before the 70s, Turkey). Somethines other nationalities are recognised as minorities (Danes in Schleswig-Holstein, Sorbs in Brandenburg and Saxony, Jews and Greeks and Armenians but not Kurds in Turkey, Kurds in Iraq).

The US are unique in that they are no nation state and do not acknowledge ethnic minorities (as nationalities). (The Indian tribes are not ethnic minorities but sovereign entities.)

 

on Dec 22, 2008

Canada thus didn't "fail". They just didn't want to create a new state.

Fail in the respect that it did not meet the qualification.  Whether they wanted to or not (and clearly they did not want it too much) is irrelevant.  They were "granted" their independence.  the US took theirs.

on Dec 22, 2008

Cikomyr



1776: American Revolution. You have the British Empire vs the Colonists.
You have 1-shot muskets, 1-shot cannons on both sides. Maybe some rifles too, since they were starting to arrive in the market, but again, they took longer to reload.

 

American's could not manufacture at the start of the war. It was illegal and one of the main reasons of the revolution.  Gun powder and cannons were mostly stolen from the British.

 


The British Empire had no good control over the territory.

The British controlled New York and New Jersey for long periods of time.  While the south was considered the hot bed of the Loyalist movement.


2016: The Texas Revolution

lol

When did anoyone say Texas?  Wasn't this about a full on national revolution? Try thinking about what would happen if 30-40% of the U.S  were to rise in rebellion against the government.  Do you actually think all the milliary hardware would stay in the hands of the rebels?

Hey I understand, You believe in, "You can not", so YOU can not.  Since you have made the task so impossible in your mind that you simple can not fathom trying.

 

 

 

 

on Dec 22, 2008



Yeah. It was the fear of hand guns that kept people away.

With an unarmed population an invasion force would be able to use lighter defenses at supply depots.  An armed population means you will need heavier defenses in your zones of "control".

 

on Dec 23, 2008

When did anoyone say Texas? Wasn't this about a full on national revolution? Try thinking about what would happen if 30-40% of the U.S were to rise in rebellion against the government. Do you actually think all the milliary hardware would stay in the hands of the rebels?

I did, 'cause I wanted an example of a strong state trying to rebel. But if you want to go about a USA-wide rebellion against the state, you would have to tell me wether or not the State's governement would be on the side of the rebels, cause otherwise I'd say "no".

Then, if I think all the military hardware would stay in the hands of the REBELS? Hell no. All of it in the hands of the Governement? I expect maybe up to a 10% leakage of light- military hardware in the hands of the rebellion, and maybe up to 5% of turncoats in the military that will join the rebels when they will get the opportunity.

As for "hard" military hardware, like Fighter Planes, how do you expect un-trained people to operate them, fly them, etc..? What about bombers? You need to supply them, reload them. I doubt very much you would be able to take control of any major Navy Warship, let alone operate them. You might be able to capture/operate a few tanks here and there, but they will be sitting duck for the Governement's airplanes.

I am telling you, this is ludicrous. You would never be able to beat the governement's firepower in a full on-war.

It's something for a Continental Soldier to learn how to use a shipment of muskets and bullets they capture from the British soldiers. It's something else to teach a bunch of rednecks how to fly a fighter plane, or to properly fire an artillery position.

What about training to work as a unit? What about logistic?

The British controlled New York and New Jersey for long periods of time. While the south was considered the hot bed of the Loyalist movement.

Yhea. Bravo, 2 colonies out of 11. How does that make my point invalid? For me, controlling 20% of the territory doesn't quality as "a good control of the country"

 

on Dec 23, 2008

With an unarmed population an invasion force would be able to use lighter defenses at supply depots. An armed population means you will need heavier defenses in your zones of "control".

Suuuuure, and the most powerful military of the world was merely a minor deterrant compared to the MIGHT OF AMERICA'S GUNS!!

Hey, that's a nice Hollywood ring to it, don't you think?

What the American Army could not do, Mr. Joe Bloe with his rifle will!

on Dec 23, 2008

With an unarmed population an invasion force would be able to use lighter defenses at supply depots.  An armed population means you will need heavier defenses in your zones of "control".

Yes, we see in Iraq how much that helps the Iraqi people.

I assume hand guns work against any invasion force that tries to rebuild the country as opposed to destroy it?

 

on Dec 23, 2008





Yes, we see in Iraq how much that helps the Iraqi people.
I assume hand guns work against any invasion force that tries to rebuild the country as opposed to destroy it?
 

American and allied forces would beable to use lighter defenses if Iraq had an unarmed populace.

on Dec 23, 2008

American and allied forces would be able to use lighter defenses if Iraq had an unarmed populace.

Yes, that was my point.

An armed populace works against a benevolent occupier, for a bad value of "works".

It wouldn't work against a non-benevolent occupier because such an occupier would not "defend" against attackers, but simply eradicate the population.

The Iraqis now have the problem that armed citizens (like the "Mahdi army" of that self-procaimed "Mullah" Al-Sadr) fight the occupation troops. The result was six years of low-scale war with lots of civilian deaths.

How did that accomplish anything good?

If the Americans had withdrawn, the militias would have taken power.

If the Americans had been evil, everyone would be dead.

There was no possible outcome in which the fact that there existed armed Iraqis who were able to "resist" the invading army actually helped anyone.

And if the US were invaded (i.e. the US military fails to defend her, Britain fails to defend her, and the US are down to her armed populace, i.e. dudes with hand guns), I can see two possible situations:

1. The invading army is a benevolent occupier invading the US to liberate the country from a dictatorship. In that case the gun nut revolt would make things worse for everyone.

2. The invading army is evil and hates freedom. In that case the gun nut revolt would trigger a genocide and give the occupier an excuse to kill everyone they want to.

Either way, the armed populace makes things worse.

After a war the most important part is to keep the country together and establish an authority. You can't do this if the population is armed and trigger-happy.

The reason Gandhi's revolution worked was because everyone, especially the British themselves, could plainly see that the Indian independence advocates were not the aggressors. But even a peaceful revolution like Gandhi's only works if the power is a good guy.

In eastern Europe, a peaceful revolt didn't work against Stalin's Soviet Union, but it did work against Gorbachev's Soviet Union. An armed revolt would have had worse results, in both cases.

 

on Dec 24, 2008

2. The invading army is evil and hates freedom. In that case the gun nut revolt would trigger a genocide and give the occupier an excuse to kill everyone they want to.

Can you name a single instant in history in which an armed civilian population was wiped out like you describe?

Being unarmed sure worked out for the Jews in Nazi Europe. I wonder how things might have gone if most of those Jews had been armed. I suspect quite differently.

on Dec 24, 2008

2016: The Texas Revolution

You have the USA. They have a sattelite network, the most advanced intelligence network of the planet. They have Air Superiority Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Tactical Bombers. The Federal Governement knows where Texas's military installations are, but the opposite is not true. The Federal Governement also has the Fleet at its disposal, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines.

They have APCs, tanks, mortar, artillery, air and naval superiority. They can move around thousands of soldiers around the world in a matter of WEEKS, I can't imagine how easily the USA would be at mobilising its forces for an internal struggle.

Texas have access to some of these equipment, but not all. They are desperatly overgunned in term of air superiority, and they don't have their own fleet.

The fact that you kept your rifle in your cellar won't change that.

"Long odds" indeed. Keep your illusion mate.

So how do they hold this rebellious Texas territory after reconquering it? 

The Soviets in Afghanistan, the Americans in Iraq have had a difficult time even when relatively few of the citizenry have weapons or are even familiar with them. Leaki was recently in Iraq so I suspect he can back me up when I say that the typical Iraqi civilian has little familiarity with fire arms. 

The media and the images we get gives the impression that eveyrone in the middle east is running around with AK-47s but in reality, the average villager in Iraq or Afghanistan has never touched a firearm.

In Soviet Afghanistan, it didn't take long after the population started being supplied with arms to repel the Soviets.

on Dec 24, 2008

...getting back to topic...

The odds of the civilian population rebelling against the government are nil.

Fire arms are the great equalizer against criminals.  The difference between a victim and a citizen can often be a firearm.

on Dec 24, 2008

Can you name a single instant in history in which an armed civilian population was wiped out like you describe?

It's what happened to the Warsaw Ghetto.

 

Being unarmed sure worked out for the Jews in Nazi Europe. I wonder how things might have gone if most of those Jews had been armed. I suspect quite differently.

Well, the Freikorps were armed. A lot of good did it for everyone. If the Jews had been armed, Nazi Germany would still have been stronger. Hand guns were no match for the Nazi war machine. But the Nazis were very good at using armed resistance in their propaganda machinery.

Hand guns might be an equaliser between individual criminals and their victims. But they are no equaliser when a minority of a few hundred thousand people (Jews in Germany before the war) faces a huge number of several millions armed with a country's army.

 

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