Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on December 14, 2008 By Draginol In Politics

I'm not personally into guns but I am a strong believer in the right for citizens to legally purchase pretty much any type of precision target weapon (i.e. guns).

One of the strawman arguments I hear often is "Why not let people have nukes then?" and the reason is that the constitution intended citizens to bear arms -- specifically weapons that have a relatively high degree of precision.  Explosives, canons, etc. are not precision weapons.

Now before someone gets hung up on the above paragraph and starts naming various non-gun weapons that are arguably precise let me get to the meat of this discussion:

Guns are the great equalizer.  Societies in which citizens have few guns also tend to have more crime when comparing similar demographics. Gun opponents tend to fixate at overall crime rates or cherry pick types of crime ("gun violence") but when you compare apples and apples (like two middle class families in the US or UK) you find that the society that has guns tends to suffer less from crime.

That's because criminals have to think twice before doing a home invasion.  Home invasion, in Britain, is relatively common. Former Beatle George Harrison was attacked in his home by an intruder and severely injured.  In the US, home invasions are very rare because the would-be intruder never knows when the residents might be armed.

I don't want to have to rely on a benevolent government for all my protection. I expect to have the right to defend myself and my family -- with lethal force if necessary.

Certainly, there are a few nuts out there and some of them (not many but some) do purchase their weapons legally. But that's going to be true with anything. More people die due to cars and alcohol and I don't think we're going to be outlawing those things any time soon either.

Update: 

As if to help prove my point...

Found on this blog today:

An intended rape victim shot and killed her attacker this morning in Cape Girardeau when he broke into her home to rape her a second time, police said.

The 57-year-old woman shot Ronnie W. Preyer, 47, a registered sex offender, in the chest with a shotgun when he broke through her locked basement door.

The woman told police he was the same man who raped her several days earlier. Officials do not intend to seek charges against her.

In the first incident, the woman heard glass breaking in her basement about midnight on Saturday. She went to leave the house, and the man attacked when she opened the front door. He punched her in the face and then forced her into a bedroom, where he raped her, said H. Morley Swingle, prosecuting attorney in Cape Girardeau County.

The victim reported the crime to police, and her landlord repaired the broken window.

She was home alone again Friday about 2:15 a.m. when Preyer broke the same basement window. The victim was awake watching television, when Preyer switched off the electricity to her house.

She tried to call 911, but couldn’t because the power was off. She got a shotgun and waited as the man began banging on the basement door. She fired when Preyer came crashing through the door. When Preyer collapsed, the woman escaped and went to a neighbor’s home, where she called police. Officers, who arrived within a minute, found a bleeding Preyer stumbling away from the house. He was taken to St. Francis Medical Center, where he died several hours later.

Swingle said the victim identified Preyer as the attacker in both incidents. Preyer, of Jackson, Mo., had wet caulking from the recently repaired basement window on his clothing when he was shot.

“I will not be filing any sort of charge against this 57-year-old woman, who was clearly justified under the law in shooting this intruder in her home,” Swingle said.

Thank God we haven't given the government the ability to take our guns.


Comments (Page 5)
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on Dec 20, 2008

Cikomyr



It's just un-realistic, and it's an empty argument that is nicely rooted into your mindset - since it's so freaking patriotic to refer to the American Revolution and the Constitution -. You cannot fight the state with rifles alone, and you shouldn't fear for your gun rights if your state wants to separate from the Federal Governement. and in both case, you'd end up with a wreaked country.

People said that about fighting England in 1775.  Its your mindset that thinks long odds are impossible to win which is wrong.

Who said we'd fight with rifles alone?   Private rifles would be a suplement to any war effort, not the only weapons used.

One could say we had a wrecked country after the Revolution, it turned out just fine in the end.

on Dec 20, 2008

Who said we'd fight with rifles alone?   Private rifles would be a suplement to any war effort, not the only weapons used.

Yes, that was sort of his point.

 

One could say we had a wrecked country after the Revolution, it turned out just fine in the end.

I don't think you got his point. The American "revolution" was not "people vs their government" but "local government vs foreign ruler".

 

on Dec 20, 2008





Who said we'd fight with rifles alone?   Private rifles would be a suplement to any war effort, not the only weapons used.

Yes, that was sort of his point.
 

LoL,  sorta doesn't count, the argument that we'd only use private rifles comes gun control mouths.

on Dec 20, 2008

LoL,  sorta doesn't count, the argument that we'd only use private rifles comes gun control mouths.

First, I don't understand that sentence.

Second, I don't accept that "doesn't count" is a way to dismiss a point.

 

on Dec 20, 2008





Second, I don't accept that "doesn't count" is a way to dismiss a point.
 

 I  said sorta doesn't count.

No American has said we'd only need private arms to win, and I have already said part of the Armed forces would be involved in any American Revolution. However it helps by a LARGE margin to have arms in the populace in the first place.

The only ones who have talked about personal arms as the only weapons in this thread have been non-american gun control folk, hence they have tried to make it sound like we would try the impossible, when it would be in reality it MAYBE a long odds sitiuation. 

Americans like long odds cause we know we can use our skill to beat the odds.

on Dec 21, 2008

chadwbaker




Americans like long odds cause we know we can use our skill to beat the odds.

And American wins the day again, eh?

Lemme give you a little reality check:

1776: American Revolution. You have the British Empire vs the Colonists.

You have 1-shot muskets, 1-shot cannons on both sides. Maybe some rifles too, since they were starting to arrive in the market, but again, they took longer to reload.

The British Empire had no good control over the territory. They could not track well Continental Armed Forces. They were more numerous and more disciplined, but the Continentals generally knew the territory better and were more mobile at moving around. At the end, the British loss because it was shittily difficult to haul thousands of soldier from England to America, and the French Navy was preventing them from doing just that.

2016: The Texas Revolution

You have the USA. They have a sattelite network, the most advanced intelligence network of the planet. They have Air Superiority Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Tactical Bombers. The Federal Governement knows where Texas's military installations are, but the opposite is not true. The Federal Governement also has the Fleet at its disposal, aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines.

They have APCs, tanks, mortar, artillery, air and naval superiority. They can move around thousands of soldiers around the world in a matter of WEEKS, I can't imagine how easily the USA would be at mobilising its forces for an internal struggle.

Texas have access to some of these equipment, but not all. They are desperatly overgunned in term of air superiority, and they don't have their own fleet.

The fact that you kept your rifle in your cellar won't change that.

"Long odds" indeed. Keep your illusion mate.

on Dec 21, 2008

(darn it.. can we call the "states" of the U.S. "provinces" to make an easier distinction?).

Hell no!  States is states!

If Hawaii decided to rebel to separate from the USA

The use of Hawaii as an example was to refute your claim of a "foreign" government.  While the seat of power was far away, it still was the "local" government, not a foreign one.

You cannot fight the state with rifles alone,

Here we disagree.  As I stated, you fight nations with bombs and rockets, you fight people with guns.  You usually do not try to burn your house to rid it of guests.  That is why guns are essential.

But the rest of your analysis is very good.  I am impressed with your overall knowledge and translating that into the causes of the conflicts.  If only Americans knew as much as you did.

on Dec 21, 2008

"Long odds" indeed. Keep your illusion mate.

We will.  Until it is burst, the bubble still is the only facts we have to go on.

I will add that the examples thrown out of China, France, Iran, Russia, etc. still miss the main point.  The US is still unique in many respects to any other nation on earth.  In its founding, its creation, its independance and its governance.  What the US has that the examples you cite do not is the lack of a Nation State.

on Dec 21, 2008

Nobody seems to mention the obvious, since 1812 the US has never been invaded. It would be a nightmare for an occupying force.

Anti-gun people would probably have a cow if they new how many of their neighbors owned gun. That is usually the nature of it, it's like insurance, you don't see it unless you need it. I'm really not interested in causing anarchy or being part of that. The government would have to swing wildly from its present form (like Russia appears to be doing, some protesters [and apparently innocent bystanders] got a good beat-down by the government this weekend). I guess it's a good thing for Putin the Russian people are unarmed (thugs excluded). Da-svi-da-niya democratic Russia.

on Dec 21, 2008

The US is still unique in many respects to any other nation on earth.

... you do know that based on your standards, all nations on earth are unique in many respect to any other nation on earth?

What makes the USA so... unique? So different that its people still require guns in their home for the hope of overthrowing the autorities if they become oppressive, and thinking that they'd succeed?

What the US has that the examples you cite do not is the lack of a Nation State

What do you mean?

I guess it's a good thing for Putin the Russian people are unarmed (thugs excluded). Da-svi-da-niya democratic Russia.

Well, they are well armed in chechnya. For all the good it did them, eh?

 

on Dec 21, 2008

Nobody seems to mention the obvious, since 1812 the US has never been invaded. It would be a nightmare for an occupying force.

Yeah. It was the fear of hand guns that kept people away.

I think the reason is threefold:

1. The US military  would make invasion attempts very difficult. Far from fearing what would happen during an occupation, most enemies feared the US military.

2. Distance. Most string enemies were very far away.

3. Not counting Indians. If you counted the Indian wars, you would find that the US has been engaged in wars on her own territory quite as often as other countries. The Indians just tended to be weaker than the German Empire, France, or Russia.

I think that explains why nobody mentioned "the obvious". This reminds me of the joke about the war between Ireland and China.

 

Ireland declared war on China.

China answered that Ireland should take it back, as they don't have a chance.

But Ireland insisted.

China then published a list of its awesome military.

But Ireland replied that O'Brien can handle it.

China then published her strategy for invading Ireland with just the smallest part of her armed forces.

But Ireland refused to back down.

Then China, in a last effort to preserve the peace, told Ireland that it had millions of people in its armed forces and more than a billion people working to keep the armed forces moving. Ireland, China said, has a total population of a mere 5 million.

And Ireland backed down.

General O'Brien explained that Ireland probably couldn't handle the number of prisoners of war.

And that was why Ireland decided not to attack China.

 

 

on Dec 21, 2008

I guess it's a good thing for Putin the Russian people are unarmed (thugs excluded). Da-svi-da-niya democratic Russia.

80% of the people in Russia support Putin, just like in all totalitarian states.

I guess it's lucky for the remaining 20% that the Russian people are unarmed.

 

on Dec 21, 2008

... you do know that based on your standards, all nations on earth are unique in many respect to any other nation on earth?

What makes the USA so... unique? So different that its people still require guns in their home for the hope of overthrowing the autorities if they become oppressive, and thinking that they'd succeed?

YOur first statement is true.  IN some respects all nations are unique and that is why they are not parts of other nations.

WHat makes the US so unique?  The birth of the nation (how and why) along with what was created.  Something never seen before, and very rarely (and not well) copied since.  Unlike other nations, we are not a nation state or a descendant of a feudal society.  We created a nation out of nothing.  And since it was from nothing, we created something that was supposedly the best (and so far still is) as we had no baggage to tote with us into the new nation.

What the US has that the examples you cite do not is the lack of a Nation State

What do you mean?

I dont claim authorship of the term.  Leauki used it to describe the following:

a country in which a nation of principally the same type of people exists, organized by either race or cultural background.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-nation-state.htm

 

on Dec 22, 2008

I dont claim authorship of the term. Leauki used it to describe the following:

a country in which a nation of principally the same type of people exists, organized by either race or cultural background.

So... You forgot that Canada exists? Because if you do not, please explain to me how Canada is a country composed of one cultural background or race.

We created a nation out of nothing.

False. You created colonies out of nothing. You created a nation out of those colonies. You already have knew war as colonies, you had your own economy and your own culture, and when Charles III (I think? I never remember the name of the royalty) acted stupidly and treated you extremely unfairly, you (you = your leadership elite) realised that you were your own nation in all but in name, and started to act to change the last bit.

on Dec 22, 2008

So... You forgot that Canada exists? Because if you do not, please explain to me how Canada is a country composed of one cultural background or race.

Did he say that Canada was a nation state?

If not, why would the definition have to match Canada?

In fact, I would say that neither Canada nor the US are nation states.

Nation states: Germany, Israel, France, Danmark (not including Greenland), Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Italy

Other states: United Kingdom, USA, Canada, Australia, Luxenburg, Vatican

 

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