Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on February 1, 2009 By Draginol In Demigod Journals

Beta 2D is the last of the Beta 2 builds which were designed to test connectivity.  Over the weekend we spent a lot of time working on the connectivity server – the “magical” feature that Demigod makes use of to make connectivity a lot better and easier than what has been seen in typical RTS.

The release of Beta 2D showed a killer bug in the Impulse Reactor back end that caused it to just fail in setting up connections after a couple hours.  That got fixed (we hope) on Sunday night. We’ll know more soon.

That leads us to dealing with the remaining biggest challenge with regards to connectivity: The peer connectivity.  Right now, it only takes ONE person who can’t be connected to in a given game to cause the infinite “connecting” dialog to come up.

We have to do two things still:

1) We need to improve this substantially.  Beta 2D increases the likelyhood of success to around 80% (needs to be 99% by ship date).  Ironically, my work machine is one of the machines that can’t easily be connected to when it’s hosting.

2) We need a better way to eject players who can’t connect so they don’t hold up everyone else.

But at this point, we’re at a stage where we can start debugging that and move to Beta 3 which has the tournament code and we can really get into the balance part of the game.

We’ve learned a lot from this beta.  One of the things we’ve learned is that we really need to do a better job conditioning beta testers that the Demigod betas are just that – BETAS. They aren’t marketing experiments.  We’ve had lots of posts complaining that the game is (wait for it) “buggy”.  Or comparing the game’s balance or features to some shipping game.

Having shipped the “Strategy Game of the Year” for the past 2 consecutive years (GalCiv II and Sins of a Solar Empire) I would hope that we would get cut some slack that we know something of what we’re doing but then again, it is the Internet.

Here’s an interesting factoid that Sins of a Solar Empire players can tell you:

The economic model in Sins of a Solar Empire didn’t get its final version until GAMMA (that’s after the betas).  Before Gamma 3, asteroids and such ran out of resources (metal and crystal) eventually.  Imagine how different Sins of a Solar Empire would be. There also wasn’t an “unfair” difficulty level in Sins until the gammas.

With Beta 3, we get to start finally getting into the actual balance and game play a lot more.  Obviously, the game isn’t going to radically change in terms of scope. It’s not going to become a first person shooter.

So here are a few things that we’re looking at as a sample:

image

MY  personal opinions:

  • Currencies should increase gold income by a % not a raw amount.
    • Currency I: Increases gold income by 20%
      • Cost increased to $2000
    • Currency II: Increases gold income by 40%
      • Cost increases to $4000
    • Currency III: Increases gold income by 60%
      • Cost increased to $6000
  • Experience I
    • Experience I: increases XP generation by 10%
    • Experience II: increase XP generation by 20%
    • Add: Experience III at level 5: Increases XP generation by 30%
      • Cost $2400
    • Experience IV at level 6: Increases XP generation by 40%
  • Graveyard
    • Graveyard I moved to war rank 1. Lowers Death Penalty by 10%. Cost 600
    • Graveyard II moved to war rank 3. Lowers death penalty by 20%. Cost 1800
    • Graveyard III. Lowers death penalty by 40%.
  • Priests moved to war rank 3.
  • Angels should be moved to war rank 10, made a lot tougher, should only be 1 of them.
  • Catapultasuri should be moved to war rank 5. Should only be 2 of them but tougher (more HP).
  • Giants should be moved to war rank 7.
  • Requested new item: Totem of Cancelation: (replaces totem of revelation if necessary)
    • Cost: 200
    • Wipes out any mines or similar things in an area when placed.
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Health
    • Cost: 1000
    • Casting time: INSTANT
    • Restores 1000 health
  • Restorative scroll should eliminate Regulus tracking device
  • Requested new item: Gauntlets of Demolition
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Demolition
    • Does 2000 damage to a structure
    • Cost $2000
  • Requested new item: Scroll of Invincibility
    • Unit is invincible for 3 seconds
    • Instant cast time
    • Cost: 200
  • Eliminate:
    • Combat health potion
    • Combat mana potion
    • Rejuvenation Elixir (the cheap one)
  • Armor: Need to be careful about how much armor we give players so that they don’t become invincible.

Demigods

Assassins

  • The rook moves far too fast by default. He’s a walking castle! Super tough but super slow.

Generals

  • Fewer minions that are a lot tougher.
  • 1st level minions can only have 2 of with you.
  • 2nd level minions can only have 4 of them with you.
  • 3rd level minions can have 4 of them with you.
  • Generals should do less damage in battle. (the Oak, for instance, starts out doing like 150 damage per second).

Misc.

  • Edge scroll should be on by default
  • Multplayer is set to a threshold of 200ms. Can we increase this to 350ms?
  • Is the game clock a real clock or one based on performance?
  • Still need a fancier progress bar displayed when taking a flag
  • Amount spent in upgrades should be displayed in the final game score
  • # of upgrades paid for should be displayed in the in-game score screen
  • Damage done by the general’s minions is not displayed
  • The voice acting on Regulus could use some work. The original Regulus voice was much better.
  • War score and war rank need to be synched up so that war rank is simply war score / 1000.

image

Those are just my personal thoughts.  The next step is that we talk it over and decide what makes the most sense to do.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Feb 01, 2009

The voice acting on Regulus could use some work. The original Regulus voice was much better.
Yes.

 

Also, wasn't there a mention of improving Impulse so that you don't have to download a gigabyte each update?

 

on Feb 01, 2009

"conditioning" is a word you should never use in any public relations post.

Other than that, I think the beta process has been flawless so far. Posts like these, devs that gladly chat or even ask for help on IRC, you actually participating in the forums a lot. So what if requested feature X doesn't make it in, or feature Y is causing a problem? That's what beta is for.

on Feb 01, 2009

Generals

Fewer minions that are a lot tougher. 
1st level minions can only have 2 of with you. 
2nd level minions can only have 4 of them with you. 
3rd level minions can have 4 of them with you. 
Generals should do less damage in battle. (the Oak, for instance, starts out doing like 150 damage per second).

  • I suggest tossing out Minions & Idols for Generals, as best described in"Yet Another Genrals Thread".
  • Replace them with a General Shop.
  • Mana should not be the source in which Generals summon their minions.
  • Should emerge from someplace other than the General's location - like the Citadel or Shop. 
  • Minions should gives buffs to the Generals, as the General should buff the Minions. Seems like a reasonable replacement for Equipment.
  • Take away Summon Abilities for Generals all together from their skill trees. PLEASE!
  • Yes, I still believe Generals should not wear equipment. Sue me, I will not let this go

 

Regulus Tracking Device:

  • If we get an item to disarm it, we need a graphical object we can see on the Demigod which lets us know we're being tracked. Like a bright beaping red light stuck on us like a gummy grenade.  

 Overall Reinforcements

  • All Reniforcements: Minotaurs, Archers, Priests, ect - should appear in far fewer numbers. I do not mean the rate in which they emerge from the portal. I mean they should just be in much smaller teams. In stead of four or five Minotaurs, it should be a party of two. Same goes across the board. This builds on the previous suggestion in the OP.  

 End Game Information: 

  • When the game concludes, you should be able to view the history of a enemy or allies progression. This includes a total list of equipment they purchased throughout the game.

 Additional Rewards:

  • Add an achievement for end of match which lets us know who purchased the most equipment.
  • Add an achievement for end of match which lets us know who used the most items, and by most I mean different types. Not just greatest in number.

Game Stability

  • Fix the lag! Stop making the game more and more laggy with each build. Optimize and smooth out so I can sustain 30fps+ please. 3fps even on Low settings won't cut it! Read thread: Extreme Lag

 

on Feb 01, 2009

Generals

* Fewer minions that are a lot tougher.
* 1st level minions can only have 2 of with you.
* 2nd level minions can only have 4 of them with you.
* 3rd level minions can have 4 of them with you.
* Generals should do less damage in battle. (the Oak, for instance, starts out doing like 150 damage per second).

 

If you do this, generals will be far weaker early game.  Many people currently play generals without minions partially because the cost of minions is often prohibitive.  I usually have only level 1 minions unless the game last over 15 minutes, then I start to buy level 3 or 4 minion.

I think Generals need a ton more equipment to give buffs to their minions.  Also they could use more HP buff equipment, they are awful frial late game.

 

 

on Feb 01, 2009

Trigeminal, why not have minions which provide buffs like Equipment?

on Feb 01, 2009

ok I like the improvements listed very much and thanks for keeping us informed.

on Feb 01, 2009

Please, please, do not make the default "forced latency" 350ms ...

 

-Drexion

on Feb 01, 2009

OrleanKnight


I suggest tossing out Minions & Idols for Generals, as best described in"Yet Another Genrals Thread".
Replace them with a General Shop.
Mana should not be the source in which Generals summon their minions.
Should emerge from someplace other than the General's location - like the Citadel or Shop. 
Minions should gives buffs to the Generals, as the General should buff the Minions. Seems like a reasonable replacement for Equipment.
Take away Summon Abilities for Generals all together from their skill trees. PLEASE!

The idea of linking minions to something other than mana is interesting and may allow minions to be more useful.  My biggest concern is they may become too costly if switched to the setup in this post.  Currently, I believe minions are already too costly.

 

 

Also can we please have minion stats displayed for us on the shop and inventory screen.  I like to know stats.  Is level 3 reall better than level 1?  Does it justify the cost?  I need numbers to place all the info in spreadsheets and run regression algorythms on.

on Feb 01, 2009

It's all in the execution. Right now Minions can be popped up just about anywhere based on a timer and not resources. If you take a bunch of Mana potions you can make units just about anywhere at anytime. This really bothers, and I feel this is one of the key factors that makes Generals feel too much like Assassins. Their Minions are abilities, not a fundamental part of building an army which compliments a person's tactics and play style. Idols and Ability Summons are choking a General's true potential. -- In my opinion of course.

on Feb 01, 2009

OrleanKnight
It's all in the execution. Right now Minions can be popped up just about anywhere based on a timer and not resources. If you take a bunch of Mana potions you can make units just about anywhere at anytime. This really bothers, and I feel this is one of the key factors that makes Generals feel too much like Assassins. Their Minions are abilities, not a fundamental part of building an army which compliments a person's tactics and play style. Idols and Ability Summons are choking a General's true potential. -- In my opinion of course.

 

I hear your arguement, but even under the current setup, I am hemorrhaging gold compared to assassins.  While they are becoming invincible through speed, armor, and hp buffs, I am paying for minions.  In the current setup, at least I can recast them for free.  I would prefer the portal system discussed, but only if they cost much less!!!

on Feb 01, 2009

Also I agree minion type should show up on the bar.  I came up wth an idea about 2 weeks ago which I think works great, but have been busy with a grant proposal.  I'll try to through it together quick and see what you all think.

 

 

P.S. It's MY BIRTHDAY!!!

 

P.P.S.  That is the largest post script ever!

on Feb 01, 2009

I hope there is a cooldown for those instant cast health and invincibility.

on Feb 01, 2009

LOL.

I don't think I agree with any of OrleanKnight's suggestions. 

As for lag, we don't create lag. Ping times depend on individual player networks. I think, however, that we should increase the tolerance to 350ms (at the expense of it being slightly less responsive).

on Feb 01, 2009

Net_lag 350 sounds a bit high to me. 250 would still be nice but 350 would probably be pushing it a bit as far as competetive gaming goes.

TheBigOne usualy talk about an auto net_lag feature which automaticly changes the net lag to the best value. if you play with people with 350 ping then it would set the netlag to work with that, so 350 it would be.

And I have to say this solution sounds good to me as well.

Otherwise a great post Draginol, I especially like the idea of minions being fewer but more powerful, we got some exciting time ahead of us with beta3

on Feb 01, 2009

YOu said  : Multplayer is set to a threshold of 200ms. Can we increase this to 350ms?

 

Cant it be automatic? will be a lot better if people inside have low ping and no laggin when with laggin people. Should be an easy algorythm that can do that...


EDIT: ops have'nt read sevenix post..

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