I don't judge this Marine at all because it is a situation that unless a person is there we don't know.
I will leave this up to the Marines who are there and hopefully the Command won't pull some hokey chit by condemning this guy without reason just because of their worrying over Public Relations.

- Grim

I agree.

Irrespective of what peoples views are, there are strict and well defined codes of conduct required. It's up to the authorities to determine if they were broken or not. They're doing this job and until they report on the facts there is little point in argueing the point.

Paul.

If the rules of war say that it's better to have a marine be killed by somebody faking death than to make sure that the person faking death (is that justified with the rules?) is really dead, then I say let the people who made the rules of war fight these wars with their own rules (while their enemies cheat on them). Not torturing prisoners, I could understand, but risking your life because it says in a book that if somebody appears dead than they obviously must be dead or completely unarmed is ludicrous. I'd honestly rather have an enemy combatant who abuses the rules the U.S. soldiers try to follow to kill them being mistreated a bit than to have the soldiers die because they're forced to follow some rules that are supposed to (and fail miserably at) making war a little nicer.

Thanks for the link to Mathew Heidt's view on what may have taken place. In my opinion, it is a clear-sighted, sympathic and sane assessment.

I think someone just did not follow procedure, and it wasn't the shooter. As I understand it a team of marines cleared out a mosque on Day 1, on Day 2 another group of marines entered the mosque and found 5 injured iraqis. Now, if they were prisoners, where were the guards, who could say "don't shoot him". If they were placed by other iraqis thinking that once cleared marines don't look back, then they become a genuine threat.

I think someone higher up missed a call or an order or something.

One think bothers me, and I may get mail about this, but if a soldier has been shot in the face, shouldn't he take a little time off? Even a marine? I know, cold professionalism, but that could alter perspective. Not consciously but, I don't know.

IG

Like I said in the other thread. Issue everyone cattle prods, if they flinch they are alive.

I know this is going to read awfull,,,,,,,,but I say kill-em all and then they can go to paradise and be with x amount of virgins sooooooo we would in essensse be doing the crazed
fanatics a favor. Blasting our troops for defending themselves or holding them to this "higher" standand is insane.

i agree....this crap reminds me of the B-version of Rules of Engagement I personally think the guy was doing the only logically real thing to do. If an enemy is FAKING that he is dead....why would he be doing that? Tell me? And for ppl like Chris Matthews to sympathize with these animals is beyond me....YES, they are animals....interesting how i hear about this marine being a war criminal, but the guys who just disagree with us are out killing innocents....and idiot stupid moronic without a clue Americans are siding with the enemy....This kind of crap is what is going to make the Iraq war the 2nd Vietnam....Americans turning on their soldiers....makes me sick

It is soooo refreshing to hear people facing up the reality of war. How many prisoners has Abu Masaq Al Zaqwiri taken and shown mercy to?

I totally abhor the terrorist activity in iraq, but we cannot ignore important questions as to it's cause.

Why are these people animals?
Were they animals before the US invasion?
What has turned them into animals?

It very intellectually shallow to say they are terrorists and deserve to be treated like animals. The US must accept responsibility for the fact that most of these people have become terrorists (there are undoubedly some true evil people as well). History has show that human experience of war turns many people into animals. It's not a justification but a fact. We need to stop ignoring this fact and focus on how to change these peoples view point and beliefs, rather than calling them animals. That's one gaurenteed way to inflame the situation further and create more terrorists. Then what, nuke the whole country? Turn the US into the biggest mass killer since Hitler and Stalin?

Paul.

It very intellectually shallow to say they are terrorists and deserve to be treated like animals. The US must accept responsibility for the fact that most of these people have become terrorists (there are undoubedly some true evil people as well). History has show that human experience of war turns many people into animals. It's not a justification but a fact. We need to stop ignoring this fact and focus on how to change these peoples view point and beliefs, rather than calling them animals. That's one gaurenteed way to inflame the situation further and create more terrorists. Then what, nuke the whole country? Turn the US into the biggest mass killer since Hitler and Stalin?

Fine, we could do that. However, until they can stop being animals and start following the same rules as American soldiers must, I say, "To hell the rules that place the lives of American soldiers in danger."

Fine, we could do that. However, until they can stop being animals and start following the same rules as American soldiers must, I say, "To hell the rules that place the lives of American soldiers in danger."

Insightful for that, messy.

They will never stop being animals. They're terrorists. That's the point. You cannot however treat them as animals or else they've won. Others will see your actions and judge you as animals as well. If you can't be better than terrorists then you'll never win the war.

Paul.

Solitair: I can understand your desire for sensitivity, but the constant second-guessing and scrutiny by the media is harmful and wrong. How do you explain to a widow with children clinging to her legs that her husband is dead because he was required to give the enemy the advantage and was not allowed to defend himself from a likely threat?

I know that you are an extremely intelligent and educated man, and I mean you no disrespect, but I don't believe that allowing our military to fight in the manner that is successful and puts them in the least amount of danger is putting them on par with the terrorists. It's fighting a war to win.