Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.

As some of you know, we had to assign quite a few members of the Elemental team to help with Demigod after it was released.  Most of them are back on Elemental but a couple of our developers are still attached to Demigod to refine the multiplayer system in that game.  It’s been particularly challenging since initially there was virtually no “Stardock code” involved and now it’s thousands of lines.  So we have definitely “gotten involved”.

The good news is that it will likely benefit Elemental in the long run.  While Elemental is being designed to focus on the single-player experience, there are some multiplayer features that we feel Demigod must have that we’re going to develop that will be put back into Elemental too.

For example, personally speaking, I’m convinced that the only sure-fire way of totally making these games 100% reliable online is for us to just host the games.  I’ve asked our guys to look into finding ways to do that for Demigod in a future update that won’t require Gas Powered Games to change their code (so it will seem peer to peer to Demigod but it’ll actually be our servers doing it all).  This will be helpful for Elemental because we’ll have a lot of additional experience in this area.

Another feature we’re going to look at developing is letting groups of friends join into randomly generated skirmish games.  Right now, in Demigod, you can’t get a group of friends into skirmish games.  We want that to change in there and in turn it will be available for people who want to play Elemental.

Another idea we’ve had is for Elemental to have various game modes.  Basicially, vastly increase the number of winning conditions that people can put together in order to set up games that could be played in less than an hour. 

Some of the aforementioned flexibility is only possible because of the way the computer AI is being designed for Elemental.  Like in Galactic Civilizations, I’ll be coding the AI in Elemental. But this time, it’ll be moddable and I plan to make a lot of this available to the community during the beta to see if they can do certain game modes better than I can.

All in all, I’m definitely looking forward to all the options.


Comments (Page 4)
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on Jun 03, 2009

The tactical battles are continuous turns, i.e. pseudo realtime. It should play just like Baldurs Gate or the Total Wars games. See Design thread.

Design elements of Elemental discussed

One thing I should mention about the tactical battles that isn't clear in the screenshots is that they're continuous turns. They're not like HOMM. The player tells where they want their units and uses the space bar to pause the action to give new directions. That way, we can get much more interesting battles.

 

on Jun 03, 2009

aLap, I think you more or less missed the whole point of what Sins did and what Elemental is going to do

on Jun 03, 2009

ThreeKings
PBEM PLEASE!

Best option for multiplayer in my humble opinion.

 

I have to completely agree.  I've recently graduated college and joined the 'real world' and found that it's difficult for me to find several sequential hours to spend playing a game (especially compared to college!).  PBEM would also give me a chance to releive the good-ol' days of playing strategy games like HOMM with my Dad and Brother despite having radically different schedules now.

on Jun 03, 2009

Ashain

Quoting aLap, reply 3
Quoting Annatar11, reply 23Latency worries in a turn based game?
I am a latency-traumatized gamer.
Latency due do network issues, 1 second.

Latency due to the guy that went to make a PB&J when it wasn't his turn and didn't tell anybody, 10 mins.

 

Although now that I think about it, it does bring up a question as to how MP tactical battles will be fought if not set to auto-resolve.  I.e. will only the attacking channeler be able to cast spells etc during the battle? Or would it be in real time for both sides.  Or like MOM I guess the battle could also be fought turn-based.

 

I've always liked how Sword of the Stars did multiplayer, that is all the players do their turn movements simultaneously when everyone is done they all hit the end turn key and then they sort out battles in sequence, some of them being autoresolved some being fought, and players getting to watch other peoples battles play out if they have the right intelligence techs researched.

on Jun 03, 2009



 
I've always liked how Sword of the Stars did multiplayer, that is all the players do their turn movements simultaneously when everyone is done they all hit the end turn key and then they sort out battles in sequence, some of them being autoresolved some being fought, and players getting to watch other peoples battles play out if they have the right intelligence techs researched.

Thats the ONLY part of SOTS that I liked...

on Jun 03, 2009

One other issue with multiplayer- that really was a big problem in Age of Wonders.

How will Stardock balance out units that are much stronger in tactical combat then fast combat?

 

This WILL happen, and might also be a concern for single player.

on Jun 03, 2009

arstal
One other issue with multiplayer- that really was a big problem in Age of Wonders.

How will Stardock balance out units that are much stronger in tactical combat then fast combat?

 

This WILL happen, and might also be a concern for single player.

Well one possibility is that auto-combat actually simulates the full combat, all AI controlled and then reports the results. I recall this being mentioned by a dev a while back, but whether I'm remembering correctly or even if that'll make it into the final version, who knows. The upsides are it largely eliminates this problem (except when the AI has poor utilization for certain units) and lets you watch a replay of the actual fight if you want; the downside is it might take too long to calculate.

If that's not the case, don't expect an answer to your question. What kind of answer would you expect? We don't know if units will have special abilities, we don't know exactly what stats and such there will be, or traits. They can't answer that question without telling us nearly everything there is about the combat system, and even then I think balance is often just a matter of fiddling around.

on Jun 03, 2009
I wouldn't mind a kind of option like aLap suggests. Although I expect that about as much as I expect to flap my arms and fly to the moon. Of course, I'm a dreamer. *Starts flapping*
on Jun 03, 2009

Annatar11
aLap, I think you more or less missed the whole point of what Sins did and what Elemental is going to do

I'm certainly not a purist, and like when developers succeed on pushing a game genre forward. I saw a possibility with multiplayer, that's all, and I hope to see an innovative spirit with Elemental in one way or another. If not... I'm sure that we'll still have a good game to play.

on Jun 03, 2009

I saw a possibility with multiplayer, that's all, and I hope to see an innovative spirit with Elemental in one way or another.

The problem is there are two layers to Elemental. There's the strategic campaign map, and there's the tactical battle map. You can have different engines for these, but it's somewhat difficult to have 2 engines for the same thing, which is what I'm trying to get at. Multiplayer and single player are not different games, ultimately they still run on the same game engine. Doing an option for turn based and another for real-time is essentially developing 2 engines with AI that can work under either.

on Jun 03, 2009

Doing an option for turn based and another for real-time is essentially developing 2 engines with AI that can work under either.

I understand your point, though I was thinking more on a modding perspective.

By introducing a "cheat" in the movement cap (I've done that for fun in Civ IV and Gal Civ II) with a limited number of elements in play and mod-like changes, in theory a "real-time" result could be obtained for a new form of multiplayer experience.

EDIT: further clarification.

on Jun 04, 2009

LAN almost certainly. Hot seat maybe. PBEM, not sure yet.

I guess the main problems lie with tactical combat. But if they are solved with hotseat without requiring to change too many times users, PBEM should be workable

on Jun 04, 2009

A nice update to be sure.

 

Anyway, I think it would be nice to play against friends for this title however such a feature would surely be an x-pack thing in my mind.

on Jun 04, 2009

Spartan
A nice update to be sure.

 Anyway, I think it would be nice to play against friends for this title however such a feature would surely be an x-pack thing in my mind.

Uhh... Spartan, multiplayer has been planned for Elemental from the get-go, and even with the Demigod fiasco they haven't threatened to remove it...

on Jun 04, 2009

Spartan
A nice update to be sure.

Anyway, I think it would be nice to play against friends for this title however such a feature would surely be an x-pack thing in my mind.
Did we just missunderstand you, or did you somehow completely miss all the ravings about multiplayer?

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