there is a genocide occuring someonwhere on earth at LEAST once per decade. Blind trust in authorities is a cause for it.

Silver and Jade understood what I was saying.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/98/Gun_control_works.jpg

Hahahahaha, Utemia, I am not arguing on how WWII and the holocaust happened, simply that it seems to come down to a trust in the authorities.

Can you for once be not polemic? You just sound like a redneck hooligan all the time

lol Silver and Jade. It is all connected. Trusting the authorities in contemporary Germany will not lead to another dictatorship though, rest assured.

Well, considering the fact that I have not stated what I believe in regards to the 2nd amendment, you really have no basis for this claim, do you?

So you are attempting to insult me for an unknown reason, and I am stepping out.

That was not meant for you, Silver, but for taltamir and his poster. I should have specified that, sorry.

Trust in our authority, we promise not to abuse it AGAIN; they, like, totally learned from their mistakes!

mmm....

mmm....

"Trust in your boyfriend/girlfried, he/she promises not to cheat on you AGAIN; they, like, totally learned from their mistakes"

actually it should really be "anymore" rather than "Again"... because abuse of power has been an ongoing thing. I can name you multiple abuses of power in the USA, Australia, UK, germany, and china and russia in the past year.

And I try to limit my exposure to those because they are depressing. (Thats why I can't tell you about power abuses in the other countries of the world)

besides which, while genocide is quite horrible, it is not the ONLY form of power abuse available.

Ah.  Yes, quotes work fantastically for situations like that... 

Though German's may never encounter that same kind of situation, the fact that English colonists were especially sensitive to the abuse of authority (what can happen when you trust an authority), and  they have since seen many instances in which trusting in an authority proved to be a mistake, (Holocaust in Germany, multiple genocides through different countries, etc.).  These examples, though perhaps not affecting Americans directly, mix with the sensitivities that we have been handed down from our American history, and serve as validation that one should never trust their government fully. 

So basically,

American Revolution + More recent examples of government abuse of a people's trust = Absolute belief that the 2nd amendment should be upheld.

Once, twice, three times a posting...

Double post.

The experience of world war 2 changed the way authority percieves itself in Germany as well. It is complicated, or maybe not, because the knowledge of what the generation of my grandfather did is always present. You can well believe that that knowledge prevents too much abuse, even though some will be around in any government. And "never again" is a political mantra here, it is cultivated that we as a people were responsible for unspeakable horrors and that THAT makes us responsible to work tirelessly to prevent it from ever happening again in Germany or anywhere else. The "anywhere else" is hard to accomplish because genocide sadly is something that is occuring with alarming frequency.

Don't be riddiculous. World War 2 did change Germany and Europe forever.

I am actually not a native US citizens. I emigrated to the USA, and I have seen trust in authority backfire elsewhere in the world. All human rights stem from peoples ability to defend themselves with force against would be opressors. In other words, weapons.

Forever is a very long time. look how europe has been appeasing any would be dictator. look how the world stood idly by as genocides occur everywhere in the world. I was a little over 10 when I first saw a genocide, and after years of being drilled about how the holocaust changed the world (I was in israel at the time), I waited and wait and never did the "world" do anything to help. I have since seen several other genocides... Rowanda being a prime example.

Where were your "forever changed europeans" then?

You don't even have an argument, you are living in fantasy world where bad things never happen when you trust in authority. Again and again it happens, during OUR livetimes, but you bring about 70 year old examples and pretend that they changed everything forever and ignore any proof to the contrary, including all the genocides occuring in your lifetime.

This discussion began with utemia mentioning that when it comes to certain "American" ideals, such as why the 2nd amendment is necessary, some Americans cannot discuss the matter objectively.

This is my reason why many cannot discuss it objectively, and why, (using his example of the 2nd amendment) it is still viewed as a logical amendment to have.

I didn't imply that it is only in the United States that such a trust has backfired.

You have a valid point with all that you said. The world does seem to stand idly by, and I wish I knew how to change that. But tell me, how would you react? Which army would you send to interfere? There is no worldpolice that actually can stop something, all one can realistically strive for is preventing it in your own country. And that is being done.

But tell me, which dictator do you mean with

That is a warped view, and isn't it telling that those who lobby for human rights like amnesty international, the red cross etc are  for peaceful ways of dealing with each other? I find it difficult to reconcile what I know about human rights movements with your claim about the importance of weapons.