Over my cold dead body.

GFWL leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I won't get into why, because it will be a long tirade, but terrible programs like GFWL make me dislike Impulse as well. I don't want to have Steam, Impulse, GFWL, EA Download Manager, and 100 other programs downloaded onto my computer to make my gaming and updating experience "easier" from every decent sized company. The crappy programs make me loathe the system, which makes me dislike all similar programs, including the ones that work fine, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

In this aspect, I would one program that lets me update my game, search for new titles, etc. That single program used to be called the Internet, but that version wasn't good enough so it got "improved." I don't mean I want Steam or Impulse to rule the Market either, since there are obvious downfalls with that idea too, but when it comes to adding new features and programs to "help" me that I don't get to choose, control, or have any choice in their installation, less is more.

I'm still using Steam and Impulse, but I won't use games that require GFWL (such as GTAIV), and I avoid EA for a few reasons. It wouldn't take more than 1 bad experience to turn me off of either of those programs though, because of bad experiences with programs just like them.

Well, it's interesting to hear about the qualms with GFWL on the developer's side, because from a consumer's perspective I wouldn't touch a title that uses GFWL.  Most posters have already beaten me to the why of it.

GFWL really comes across as a haphazard attempt to bring PC games into the same family as XBOX games, very typical Microsoft embrace/expand/exterminate strategy.  It doesn't seem to have worked, though.  I think the problem is that the PC-gamer audience doesn't want this kind of technology.  There is no market need for a centralized game facilitator service.  From a publisher's end the standard and centralization is good, but for the average gamer they just want to double-click an executable and be done with it; if you're going to add hoops, you'd better give a good reason why we should jump through them.

I honestly was really pissed off when I learned about Impulse.  I'm a consumer and Impulse is a hoop the publisher makes me jump through.  Fortunately, Impulse earned enough points (the big one is that I can actually turn the thing off without issue) that I don't begrudge it like I do Steam or GFWL.

Well as I mentioned somwhere else, when GFWL came out and was talking about charging the users, I pretty much dismissed it entirely and never looked back. Now it's being mentioned by Brad and I think Richard (Gearbox) so info is circulating around again, and I still don't get it. I prefer Direct IP above anything else. The multiplayer games that I enjoy with Direct IP still work, the ones that relied on some sort of service, don't without work arounds like Hamachi because those service provdiers are gone. Direct IP + something else is fine as I know finding games is an issue for some, but paying for that service, getting locked to that service and only that service, no thank you.

Well the problem I have with GFWL is that they seem to require me to have an account that I sign in with to be able to have saved games (or other game related data). I don't know if the saved data is kept online or not, but I have TERRABYTES of data storage capacity on my machine. I don't need a service to store the stuff or to restrict what I can have. I get a bit angry when a PC game has something like 5 save files or something.

Mind you, I only have 3 games that have GFWL (I plan on avoiding any future titles that have it), so my knowledge is somewhat limited.

However, if I only needed an account play online, well that would be another story...

what really sucks about GFWL is that its a half hearted attempt at changing the way gaming is done on the pc.

as it stands right now pc gaming is not broken and works very well. In game server browsers works very well  and the third party server browsers offer a great alternative to finding even more online gaming goodness.

GFWL attempt at changing this is one big pile of Fail . It offers nothing that improves or makes finding games to play online better than what is currently offered. What is realy sad about this is that there is no reason for it, as the bar is not that high.

Unfortuneatly it appears microsoft does not want to invest the neccassry efforts to make GFWL a viable system for hooking gamers up to each other . and instead they are focusing on policies and restrictions that hampers gamers from enjoying their games .

Until Microsoft actually shows  something that at least rivals steam  i will not be conveinced that they are serious about the pc as a gaming platform.

and lets not forget they once held the key to a service that woul have been the keystones in building a real GFWL service with a community match making and online market. It was called The Zone .

But they killed it .

and i beleive they are going to do the same thing to GFWL as they will fail to implement a system that should be very easy to implement  because  they dont have the desire to follow through with it.

and its ashame because microsoft could do it if they really wanted to.

Well I don't know about the works "very well" part. I mean look at what you might wind up doing to play a simple game. First you are dealing with routers which, let's face it, the interface for those are pretty awful and haven't changed since I can remember. Nothing user friednly about routers. Then, you are dealing with anti-virus and firewall conflicts. HOMM5 pretty much said you had to uninstall McAfee to run their game (no I don't use them anymore nor do I play the game now so I don't know if that issue was fixed). And if you are messing with all those things, and something still doesn't work your best recourse is a user forum because most companies have terrible support and once they find our you have a firewall and router, well you might as well just forget it.

So the alternative is what, hosted servers which costs someone money to keep going which means, down the line they might just stop that expense and leave you dry down the road.

I am all for trying to improve multiplayer on the PC, but I am not anxious to lay all our eggs in one basket whether it be MSFT or some other company. I am all for alternatives and improvements.

I agree with Nesrie, the sheer number of hardware combinations makes PC Gaming a nightmare in some cases, and solutions like GFWL help overcome that burden somewhat and ensure a smooth(er) play experience for all involved. Just look at Demigod's own launch as proof of what can happen without some kind of standard system in place.

However, as Brad pointed out, Microsoft are trying to control this platform outside of what is necessary - requiring third party certification for updates to your own program slows down the process of updating, and adds a completely pointless hoop for developers to jump through into to provide customer support. I doubt a developer is going to release a harmful update to their own software, and they understand their own program better than Microsoft's people ever could, so I see no benefit from either the customers point of view or from the developers point of view - however, if Microsoft charge for this certification, I see a great benefit for them.

I also have to agree with Kodiak888 in that it seems every day another download manager, another background program updater, another third party application burning through my computer's resources is added to my list of startup programs - everyone appears to want to have their own standard platform, and aren't willing to sign onto anyone elses - Steam and Impulse are the exceptions, of course.

Now, Impulse is how a platform should be - I can turn the damn thing off when I want to and still enjoy my games. Steam, on the otherhand, needs to run in the background at all times. Even in offline mode. EA Download Manager has a nasty habbit of re-activating itself in my startup programs list, even after I've uninstalled all EA Games from my machine, and I often wonder why my PC takes longer to start until I see that little green tray icon. And Blizzard's background downloader can go to hell as it loves to suck up monthly bandwidth without even asking or informing me in any way that it's doing so.

I still fail to understand  the hard to play pc games online attitude.

every game i have played online  be it interstate 76,  allegiance (before and after microsoft dropped support for it), counter strike, counter strike source, (various half life engine mods from science and industry to natural selection before steam) unreal tournament 2002 and 2004 americas army, unreal3, battlefeild  1942, battlefeild 2,  battlefeild 2142, and countless other games .

i have had 0 problems for hooking up and playing online.

the steps (install, patch,  run game, maybe login, browse for server, get killed)

if you have a router problem gfwl is not going to solve this .

antivirus firewalls is easily resolved by not installing norton or mcaffe and any other antivirus that wants to install a firewall just say no..  if you are behind a router you do not need a software firewall running.  if you are not then use the windows firewall it  is just as good as the nortons or mcaffes. save your self some headaches and use a simple effective antivirus like avast or nod32 antivirus.

but game for windows live does nothing for these problems.

pointing to demigod as an example of poor pc online gaming is just wrong.   they went with a untested networking platform and methodolgy.   if they would have implemented a system like age of empires,  starcraft, or diablo used  i bet it would have been a perfect launch . because how did these games do it ?? and some of them on dial up ??

Game For Windows Live does nothing better than the games i have listed above nor does it resolve any of the issues from agressive firewalls or poorly setup networking.

Again There is no reason for that, Microsoft if they wanted could best all of these examples and make something truly awesome for the pc. they have had over 3 years now and still we have a half hearted attempt at... im not really sure what to call it.

but it is for damn sure not the future of pc gaming.  

GFWL is a good idea that went horribly wrong.

On the Xbox, making a multiplayer game requires less work then on the PC (or PS3) because a lot of the necessary stuff is already built and provided by Xbox Live. It's a good thing. Doing something like that on the PC would also be a good thing for game developers that don't want to have to deal with all that stuff (it'd also mean that if it works in one game, it should work in all of them, since its the same network code).

Unfortunately first they screwed it up with user fees that almost nobody was willing to pay. Then they talked about this update certification nonsense. You can tell its being run by the console guys, because they completely miss the point. They don't have the forced lock in that they have on the Xbox, acting like a dictator will just send developers to some other platform.

Until they figure that out and start to behave like a partner, GFWL will be a failure.

I tried Steam once and ran from it as fast as I could. I currently have a copy of Counter Strike Source that I did not really like much but my lack of interest in this particular game pailed in comparison to the dislike I had for Steam do to the time it took to install and update thru the Steam UI. It was a nightmare that lasted several hours only to be disappointed by the game (just my personal opinion) not to mention I was only able to play 1 of the 3 demo type games that came with it because 2 of them never really finished updating and Steam would not let me play them till they were done.

What's even worse is that I can't even give the dam thing away because it's connected to me now thru the Steam account. Feels like having one of those worthless AOL CD's you get thru mail except I paid $20 for it.

Impulse has it's ups and downs with me. On the plus side having one central place to install all my Stardock stuff is great, but at the same time needing to have Impulse open to run any of the programs is having one too many screens oopen on my PC and one to many programs running. Of course I could simply search for the individual short cuts within the Start Up Menu but I wouldn't mind having the software give you the option of wanting a shortcut install on the desktop for those programs you use most often. For me it would be Tweak7 (before was TweakVista). I like using it when I game to close any unnecessary services and programs but find it  bit annoying that not only do I have to run Impulse first, but wait for it to login and then run Tweak7 amd then close both. Kinda a few extra steps I would really like to avoid. Of course the shortcut can fix that. All in all Impulse is pretty good.

As for GFWL, I had not heard of it till now and probably don't own any games with it though i could be wrong since my Call Of Duty World At War is a GFW game. Judging by the comments here I am not sure I want to even try it out.

You do not need Impulse running to use any app installed through it, and there's an option to create (automatically or after a prompt) desktop shortcuts on install in the prefs.

I have dealt with several games that have GFWL. Some of the earlier ones like Fallout 3 weren't a big deal. It installs it's GFWL BS, but then you can forget about it. Never had to start it or login/create account to play the game. Note, that I don't play multiplayer so I never had to deal with that part.

Then along comes the likes of GTAIV. What a pain in the ass just to play a singleplayer game. You have to creat this account and that account and link something called a gamertag to someother unwanted BS known as Rockstar Social club.

I picked GTA up on the cheap, so it was more of an impulse buy without research. I would of passed had a I known the crap involved.

In a way though I think GTA saved me some PITA with Red Faction:Guerrilla and Batman Arkham Asylum. Since I already had the former setup, I avoided the same mess with the others. They just automatically login to GFWL upon start. Still a no-no for playing single player, but not unexpected nowadays. My main Beef now is that I have to totally turn off ZoneAlarm or most GFWL games won't start(even adding them to exceptions won't help).

Needless to say all the above games are now cracked to do away with as much of the GFWL BS as I can and still be able to play and I won't be spending money for anymore of that BS. You want to sell me a game fine. If you want to sell me a pile shit attached to it, then I'll just use other means to aquire it with BS removed.

GFWL promotes piracy, nice going MS.

Good thing about Fallout 3 is, that you can bypass GfWL with the perfectly legal Fallout Script Extender, or FOSE, that works even with the Steam version. (It's Oblivion counterpart, OBSE had some trouble, until the folks at Valve patched their Oblvion distribution to allow it to work )

Really? Normally I double-click the program on Impulse and say yes to install and I don't get another menu till it's done and thats only if it needs to reboot the system or something. It has never given me the basic options of an installation such as where to install, if I want shortcuts or not or anything like that. How do I get shortcuts, thru Impulse? There are still many features of Impulse I have not tried yet.