Brad’s thoughts for Games for Windows Live

Published on October 5, 2009 By Draginol In PC Gaming

I’m getting overexposed. I’m as narcissistic as the next guy who refers to themselves in the third person in the name of an article and even I am not that interested in my opinions.

At PAXX I gave an interview to Shacknews primarily on Elemental but we talked about all kinds of other things including my thoughts on Games for Windows Live.

It’s no secret that I’ve been an advocate for Games for Windows Live. But over time, a handful of the emerging policies have come up that came to a head when I was asked directly about it.

The particular GFWL show-stopper I have had is having to have your app go through any sort of approval process before being updated. On the console, that makes perfect sense, particularly with regards to a universal achievement system. But on the PC, where we have to make updates for reasons beyond our control, that’s a problem.

For example, on Windows Vista last week, Microsoft released an update that broke WindowBlinds on Vista. We were able to fix it and get an update out in less than 24 hours. But imagine if we had had to go through some approval process at Microsoft?

Then there is the issue of being charged for these updates. To date, Microsoft hasn’t charged anyone to do an update but it’s been made pretty clear to me that that there would be a limited number of “free updates”. I don’t want to go through an approval process with a third party to put up an update to my software.

But I do love the concept of Games for Windows Live. I like the idea of the platform owner (Microsoft) having a series of services available to be used. I’d even pay for it. I don’t want to have to worry about match making and network connectivity. Anyone who was part of the Demigod launch knows the pain it can be to work out that sort of thing. But using such services shouldn’t mean that they gain some control over my updates.

All of Stardock’s recent titles and new games use Games for Windows (not GFWL). I very much like the program of there being some standardization for game developers to adhere to and don’t mind going through an initial certification. It is the post-release update certification I object to as well as the potential of having to pay for it unless the value add was far greater than what it is today.

I wasn’t intending to “slam” GFWL. I simply could not abide by the current model of GFWL and hope/think they will change it as it evolves. Hopefully all my friends at MS won’t beat me next time I’m over visiting.

Related Articles:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/95194-Stardock-CEO-Dishes-on-Sales-Numbers-GFW-Live-and-More

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/10/05/stardock-slams-games-for-windows-live/1

http://www.co-optimus.com/article/2713/Stardock_CEO_Reveals_the_Truth_of_Digital_Distribution_and_the_Industry.html

http://www.destructoid.com/brad-wardell-on-gfwl-you-can-t-do-that-on-the-pc--150639.phtml

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/11923-microsoft-charging-devs-for-games-for-windows-live-patches/

Comments (Page 3)

Nesrie

on Oct 07, 2009

troy whittington

reply 24

I still fail to understand the hard to play pc games online attitude.

every game i have played online be it interstate 76, allegiance (before and after microsoft dropped support for it), counter strike, counter strike source, (various half life engine mods from science and industry to natural selection before steam) unreal tournament 2002 and 2004 americas army, unreal3, battlefeild 1942, battlefeild 2, battlefeild 2142, and countless other games .

i have had 0 problems for hooking up and playing online.

the steps (install, patch, run game, maybe login, browse for server, get killed)

if you have a router problem gfwl is not going to solve this .

antivirus firewalls is easily resolved by not installing norton or mcaffe and any other antivirus that wants to install a firewall just say no.. if you are behind a router you do not need a software firewall running. if you are not then use the windows firewall it is just as good as the nortons or mcaffes. save your self some headaches and use a simple effective antivirus like avast or nod32 antivirus.

but game for windows live does nothing for these problems.

pointing to demigod as an example of poor pc online gaming is just wrong. they went with a untested networking platform and methodolgy. if they would have implemented a system like age of empires, starcraft, or diablo used i bet it would have been a perfect launch . because how did these games do it ?? and some of them on dial up ??

Game For Windows Live does nothing better than the games i have listed above nor does it resolve any of the issues from agressive firewalls or poorly setup networking.

Again There is no reason for that, Microsoft if they wanted could best all of these examples and make something truly awesome for the pc. they have had over 3 years now and still we have a half hearted attempt at... im not really sure what to call it.

but it is for damn sure not the future of pc gaming.

Almost all my gaming is done online. I am not an average user. If I run into a problem, when I do, I can figure it out. It could take 15 minutes, it could take a few hours. I am willing to put up with that shit to play my games. Guess what the consoles don't have to worry about much... It's a comparison thing. Compared to the consoles, playing games on the PC is a pain in the ass and it does not work "very well", it just works. Sometimes, you gotta hve a assistance. I don't know where your anger is coming from though or why you have to assume the problems that are encountered are internal. Hell Brad has said they had to fix some of their games because of changes made by third parties. What you think third party programs affecting games is exclusive to Stardock titles or something?. And maybe I don't understand how GFWL works, but my experience has been if we are using a server and not connecting directly to our computers, routers aren't an issue. Firewalls can be. You sound like you know a few things about gaming, but I don't think pc gaming should be an exclusive club to only people who have that kind of knowledge.

Tridus

on Oct 07, 2009

ChuckCS

reply 30

You do not need Impulse running to use any app installed through it, and there's an option to create (automatically or after a prompt) desktop shortcuts on install in the prefs.

Really? Normally I double-click the program on Impulse and say yes to install and I don't get another menu till it's done and thats only if it needs to reboot the system or something. It has never given me the basic options of an installation such as where to install, if I want shortcuts or not or anything like that. How do I get shortcuts, thru Impulse? There are still many features of Impulse I have not tried yet.

If you go into the Impulse settings, there are options to tell it where to install games, and to create a desktop icon, or not. Some things go into the Start Menu on their own (Demigod for example installs itself into the Games Explorer in Vista, there's no need to start Impulse to run it.)

troy whittington

on Oct 08, 2009

No Anger here i may have opened the statment a bit strongly but i have no ill intentions towards stardock .. only fustration at the perception that pc gaming is difficult .

the reference to demi god is in response to others using demigod as an example of how difficult on line pc gaming can be.

i feel that it was a unjust comparison. my argument that previous games have had successful multiplayer like age of empires and diablo is just that examples that pc online gaming works very well .

third party apps will still break pc's.

problematic routers will still break networking .

double firewall issues will still cause massive headaches for the entire software industry.

these problems are beyond the power of game for windows live to fix. at best the only thing game for windows live can do is give you a message that says HAY SOMETHING IS BROKEN ..

i will have to admidt that would be better than the cryptic or non existance message you would get if something like counterstrike could not find any available servers.

However that is not all Game for windows Live needs to address to become an accepted standard for online pc gaming.

The direction that microsoft has taken with GFWL has not been in the direction of improving pc gaming . To clarify, microsft holds all the cards they have the technolgy, man power, and money . Therefore there is no reasons why GFWL could not be a radical platform that makes pc gaming AWESOME.

As it stands to day the only thing holding back Game for Windows Live is Microsoft.

Nesrie

on Oct 08, 2009

troy whittington

reply 33

No Anger here i may have opened the statment a bit strongly but i have no ill intentions towards stardock .. only fustration at the perception that pc gaming is difficult .

Oh I didn't read it as anger towards stardock so much as anyone who has a problem with online gaming on a PC isn't worth noting. You already said it was more strongly worded than intended though.

the reference to demi god is in response to others using demigod as an example of how difficult on line pc gaming can be.

i feel that it was a unjust comparison. my argument that previous games have had successful multiplayer like age of empires and diablo is just that examples that pc online gaming works very well .

Age of Empires I & II were awesome, but I wasn't behind a router with either of those. Later I tried II again and that was an issue or maybe it was Age of Mythology. One of those behaved very oddly behind a router to the point of a lot of boards covering the problem. And by behind a router i mean usually its me and two people behind the same router so they look like they are coming from the same IP address and some older gmes have an issue with that. I am far from a networking expert but that's the issue as we understood it.

The majority of time something breaks is as you stated when a third party does something goofy and it all comes crashing down. . The point being that game for windows live does nothing to address any of the problems listed here.

third party apps will still break pc's.

problematic routers will still break networking .

double firewall issues will still cause massive headaches for the entire software industry.

With the way they are making 360 and PS3 as mini computers, they could easily start running into these issues too, I know. For now though, you give a kid a PS3, Xbox or even a Wii, it's very simple to set it up. PC's aren't even that easy to setup when you are working with an internal network, playing LAN.

these problems are beyond the power of game for windows live to fix. at best the only thing game for windows live can do is give you a message that says HAY SOMETHING IS BROKEN ..

i will have to admidt that would be better than the cryptic or non existance message you would get if something like counterstrike could not find any available servers.

However that is not all Game for windows Live needs to address to become an accepted standard for online pc gaming.

The direction that microsoft has taken with GFWL has not been in the direction of improving pc gaming . To clarify, microsft holds all the cards they have the technolgy, man power, and money . Therefore there is no reasons why GFWL could not be a radical platform that makes pc gaming AWESOME.

As it stands to day the only thing holding back Game for Windows Live is Microsoft.

All I can comment on GFWL is my impressions as I have never had to use it and have no desire to do so.

I just think that gaming on the PC is more complicated than it needs to be. It is not exactly user friendly. I mean I get a game, install it, spend time on the forums looking at all the possible issues with nVidia, Ati, maybe specific firewall issues, gotta figure out what ports to open or hell, just open them all. I own a Wii too, you know what I did to play Mario cart? I put in the disk, worked with that stupid friend's code system and just started playing. I prefer PC games for a lot of reason, but it was nice to just be able to buy and go.

lbgsloan

on Oct 08, 2009

I actually have to thank GFWL. I refused to buy Dawn of War 2 because of the 'double DRM' it made you go through to play. This turned out to be a good thing as the general concensus is that DOW2 wasn't a very good game. I will never understand why THQ thought requiring Steam AND GFWL to play online was a good idea.

That said, I don't mind GWFL TOO much as I can still play single player game offline. I only need to connect for multiplayer, which is no different from having to connect to Battlet.net to play Starcraft online. I do disagree with the 'account lock' thing. There is no good reason (for the consumer at least) why my key should be forever locked to my account. It should check my key once when I first connect, and then that's that. All this is the attempt by publishers to try and cut out the ability to resell games.

I'm glad the GFWL system isn't being overly embraced, as doing so will lead to games not even belonging to us at all. We'll just be 'borrowing the rights' one day.

FlukyRambler

on Oct 08, 2009

Whenever there is a good title that has Games for Windows Live on it, I am installing it with very low expectations. Even with trepidation. Sure the game itself could probably be very good. But the Games for Windows Live experience for me is an extremely buggy one. I have yet to experience an install that went smoothly. Typically an update of GFWL fails, then you have to go to forums look for registry hacks, directory junctions and what not. I do not trust Microsofts testing for PC games at all. And then for them to certify an update it's a joke. Or like with Gears of War (PC), the GFWL just went ahead and lost all my game saves, brilliant. After that I really didn't feel like to continue with that game. I should have returned it. Or don't expect Windows Easy Transfer to actually transfer downloaded addons to your new harddisk or pc. At least you can download them again manually. Also do not allow "consolitis savus locatis" on the pc, if I need to quit, I want to start where I was not redo the whole level again...

Pheew, sorry had to get that out...

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