I take issue to that.

American isn't "better", it's "different". Europe will never be unified. It tries to, when it happens to fit the interest of its most powerful members (France & Germany). But it might very well fracture in the future.

America is a single nation. Europe is a multitude of nations, each of them composed of their own sub-cultures (France has more than 40, I won't even try to guess Germany's). The same way America is a nation composed of a multitude of sub-cultures (a lot more than France has).

Your average Nicois is relatively as different/similar from the Parisien as your average Texan is from a guy in Seattle. They share the same overarching culture, history, president.

Your average Nicois, however, shares very little with a guy in Rome or Frankfurt or Lisboa. Maybe moreso than the average american, but the different is tremedous, and that is the fact that you people can't see to wrap your head around.

Yhea.

But still. This game really reveals how much your friends can be lying manipulator and backstabbers, and skilled a it too.

But you are right, it's a great game, as the outcome is determined in the mind of the players, rather than the dice.

I know of it Doc, but never have played (that was Henry Kissinger's favorite game if I recall correctly). I have a 3' x 3' x 3' box in my attic filled with Avalon Hill and other, mostly war games (Squad Leader, etc.), all acquired from the early 70's to mid 80's. It was always too hard to find interested opponents, as well as time constraints.

Speaking of war game, I remember reading something extremely interesting about a naval wargame simulation that was in operation in the 80s..

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=6

It was the "Traveller Trillion Credit Tournament". A programmer created a computer that would design the "perfect fleet", and the computer came off with as many mini-gunboats as possible that could be scuttled at will. Everybody said it was cheating, as no commander would ever do this to engage a real fight.

http://www.rense.com/general64/fore.htm

General Ripper of the Marine managed to cripple the U.S. navy in 2002 using the exact same tactic playing as Iran, using Iran's current fleet capacity

Sometimes, a simple game can give much insight into real warfare.

It didn't work so well for Libya in 1986. Iran is of course more capable today than Libya was, but so are we. You can assume that Iran knows US strategy better than General Ripper, but I'll go with the US's naval experience personally. Iran's air force will be destroyed or grounded rapidly. AWACS hundreds of miles away will tell our forces if they so much launch a row boat. With air superiority, Navy and Air force planes will pick off larger ships and subs. The Iranians might get a lucky shot in if they act quickly, while they have assets.

Once again you have made a mistake. Risk is a lesser version of Diplomacy, It was made that way because Risk is the child's version of diplomacy. I play Risk almost daily. The computer version is nice especially when you can get a few people to play with the computer generals.

America is unique in the fact that they have eliminated discrimination almost from the start of the nation. Yes, there were a few bumps in the road but in less than 100 years they fixed most of the problems brought over from Europe. My great grandfather was a slave, my grandfather was one of the first black millionaires. In ONE GENERATION you can go from slave to free to rich. My grandfather made his money in the liberal state of North Carolina in the 1890's and moved to New York a wealthy man after 1926. So even with the Jim Crow laws, and segregation if a person wants to make it here they can. To do the same in Europe would be difficult even today. That is the difference between America and the rest of the world. We don't respect wealth to the exclusion of everyone else, or disrespect the poor to the point of keeping them in their place. All have a seat at the national table. The only obstacle to wealth and prosperity in America is the Federal Government. More to the point the politicians that wish to make money in politics rather than earning it honestly. They are the reason we have 47% not paying taxes.

Yes, but General Ripper only went up against one battle group and had to sacrifice almost the entire navy to win. If we go to war we will have more boats, planes and most important ground troops to play with. Operation Desert Strom we used three battle groups against no real navy, what do you think we will send against a country that has a navy?

I take issue to that.

As a Jew I think I have the privilege of reminding you that there were several wars that took a larger percentage of our nation's population than the Civil War did of the American nation.

(Of course, Europe's and the Arab world's attitude towards minorities and especially Jews is part of the major problems those cultures have.)




How is different not better or worse? Everything is on a scale.

If Europe will be unified after the Americans showed us how it works, the Americans will be merely better at it.

But if Europe will never be unified the Americans will have been infinitely better at the task.

And I agree, it might well fracture. But somehow I don't think the US will fracture (again, much).




Exactly.

When in doubt, assume I am talking about the subject discussed.

When Michael Malone came to Germany and his rabid anti-Americanism didn't excite the left-wing masses, I knew that Europe is better at being rational left-wing than America.

(Plus, we have better cheese and chocolate.)

Ask yourself a simple question.  Do you strive to be different?  Or do you strive to be better?  You may strive to be a different better, but almost without exception, most people strive to be better.  So I stand by my contention, in that context, America is better.  And I disagree that Europe can never achieve it.  I think they can.  But having the capability to, and actually doing it are 2 very different things.

America was not always a single nation.  Nor is it comprised of a single nationality.  As for the sub cultures of Europe, so what?  That is the basis of why America is not England II.  American English is not British english (we borrow a lot more).  Sub cultures mean that my wife cooks a great tamale, but my neighbor makes a great Kimchee.  But we are still Americans.

All very true.  But those are just factors that will play into the "how", not stop it from happening.  It can be done.  America showed the world that it is possible.  Will it?  That is for them to decide.

 

There is another game that is actually more revealing.  It is called - Lie, Cheat and Steal.  A game of Political Power.  It is fun, but almost invariably, women always win! (It is also a lot shorter than diplomacy).

Now the above is not a condemnation of women, just my observation of having played the game over many years.

 

Never heard the Kissinger connection.  And I do love the Avalon hill games as well (except keeping up with all those pieces).  I actually found someone who loved them as well when I was in high school.  We played one game for weeks (a couple hours a day, a couple days a week).

Way to paraphrase!  It almost makes me sound intelligent!

On the bloodiest war, I was hoping someone would jump in and correct me, but with actual examples.  And I should have qualified "in the modern era" as I am sure the Carthaginians suffered more at the hands of the romans than we did from our own devices.  back then, genocide was not a curse word, but a way of life.

Genocide still is a way of life.

When the Romans murdered the Carthaginians they got away with it (and the international community at the time accepted it) and when the Sudanese government murders the Darfurians they get away with it too.

The world hasn't changed.

 

Not. Those are factors that play into the "why would it happen" rather than the "how". There are just too many cultural difference between the various countries of Europe to ever allow a single supranational entity that will rule. The best they will come up with is a loose federation.

The cultural difference of the people coming to the U.S. is diluted. Very diluted, into the very large cultural pool that forms the USA. You are some sort of huge entity of micro-cultures spreaded across your land, with some general themes in some general location. Still, everybody still watch the Superbowl or the World Series. You all get hyped up by your next presidential election. You all felt saddened by the 9/11 deaths.

The United States formed a single, unified nation because the starting colonies were so alike from the beginning. Europe will never be a single nation for the exact same reasons, but opposite.

Really? Last time I checked, a black people still got a shitload of trouble 50 years ago

Chinese citizen got their citizenship refused to them. Japanese citizen got locked up internment camps.

Right now, Arizona just created laws to discriminate against hispanic people on their territory.

You might claim these actions are justified or not. They might be, or might not. But discrimination still exist in your nation.

(But I will give it to you that you are doing a better job, overall, to help the newcomers to your country than Europe. But then again, Europe's lack of supranational sentiment isn't rooted in their incapacity to integrate immigrants, but just by basic nationalism rooted into centuries of history)