Dublin had lots of Poles. But they are EU citizens and most seem to have returned to Poland and had no intention of staying.

I am a real immigrant, I guess, although also from another EU country.

In the US, what I did would be considered "moving". Here it was considered getting a second social security number and starting a second life.

Well, I pretty much covered that in the 2nd part of my post, if you had bothered to read

I did read it but couldn't find the argument you thought you made.

Did anybody else see it?

You just went on about how the US and Europe cannot be compared. (Which is something we disagree on.)

_I_ am waiting for you to explain WHY the US and Europe cannot be compared.

Of course the cities are different. But in order to say that, they must be compared.

Because one was built from scratch in 400 years. So you did not had any of the sociological problem inherited from a society that went through Dark Age. You developped your own problems, but you did not had the huge one Europe had.

Also, American Union was created with a mindset of self-defense and organisational purpose. The European Union was created to avert any further bloodshed. You just cannot compare the two organisation. One had a huge history, the other is pretty new. One's member dates almost as old as the organisation itself, the other's members originates in the dawn of civilisation.

One is apples, another is oranges.  But actually all are fruit.  You point out some differences, now I will point out some things overlooked.

Europe was united at least 2 times in history.  During the Roman empire 2k years ago, and during Charlemagne half that ago.  So it CAN be done.  No one said it would be easy.

One thing that allowed it to happen was a common language (each had their own native tongue, but the business of empire was done with Latin).

Before you had people who really did not care.  Now they do.  I think 300 million (or half that if you want) that want to do something 1 or a few did millennium ago can do it.

Napoleon came close.

Unfortunately, so did the Nazis.

It can certainly be done.

(I won't quote the Nazi and Napoleon examples, 'cause it's on another page)

Yes. Because these kind of unification are so alike the U.S.'s.

Washingtown conquered the 13 colonies damn straight, and he set up a powerful centralised ruling seat of power, just like Charlemagne and Rome.

Or Napoleon and Hitler tried too. I mean, it's the right way of uniting a nation.

Cikomyr, that brings us back to how the Americans were simply smarter than the Europeans when it came to nation-building.

No, it brings us back to how the Americans states were all of the same generic origin and had little historical bad blood with each other. They united and form their supra-national entity with a self-defense outlook and economic cooperation.

Everything is simply so different between the two. You had the right motives, you did not had any bad history, and you knew you HAD to work together to resist Europe.

Why wouldn't Germans and Frenchmen in America have the same problems with each other as Germans and Frenchmen in Europe?

Yes, they were clever enough to do that.

Everything is so simple if you forget bad blood.

Because they are somewhat homogeneously mixed in the big melting pot that is the USA, while in Europe, they are concentrated in regions.

Nothing to do with cleverness. Everything to do with necessity.

You don't forget bad blood. You are simply lucky to have been brought up in a country where there aren't much with other countries. The worst you have is the bad blood coming from inside the country, with your black population. Ain't your fault. Ain't their fault. It just is, because of the History you've been through.

People make decisions. Bad blood does not just happen. It's not physics, it's society.

If your society is advanced enough, you can overcome bad blood.

Ok, I'll bite.

I grew up in West-Berlin, a city then surrounded by Russian troops and mine fields as a result of World War II. My family's home in World War 2 was partly destroyed by what I think would have been American and Russian bombs.

I studied Hebrew in Haifa when Hizbullah fired rockets at my school. Hizbullah's leader announced that he wanted to kill all Jews, me included.

But here's the thing. I certainly don't hate Germans, or Americans. My Russian teacher would be surprised to learn that there is "bad blood" between me and Russians. So would my Russian-Jewish friends in Israel, I suppose. And I absolutely adore Lebanese history and the Lebanese people, our closest relatives.

So maybe you have to explain the "bad blood" concept to me because I don't get it.

Plus I am so totally in favour of the European Union, you can hardly stop me from getting angry at mobile phone companies for treating EU member states as foreign countries all the time.

For all I know (and what my parents told me) bad blood is something you make, not something you are born with and cannot help.

Sorry to burst your bubble here. The bad blood you speak of does not exist except in the news media and race baiters that make a living off of hate.

If I remember my American History correctly we had a lot of bad blood in the beginning. We had Methodists that refused to sit at the same table as Baptist, or Catholics. Somehow they still formed a constitution that works 200 years later. Then we acquired territories in order to grow. Spanish, and French territories, we still have arguments over that. The opportunity was and is still there for bad blood. We were smart enough not to let it affect our growth as a nation. Then there was the separate states with their own money and laws. Money in New York was worthless in New Jersey. If you were from the nations capital (New York) then the other states were not as important, to fix that we created a military district. The District of Columbia. That is the seat of power and it not ruled by any state. It is the only land that is truly owned and controlled by the Federal Government all other federal land is leased and can be taken back by the state. America did not become a melting pot until 1900 before that there were signs that told who was welcome and who was not. "No Irish, Jews, or dogs allowed" No Chinese, niggers, or Jews allowed" When my uncle was living in Miami Florida as a child he rememberd signs on the beaches that read No Jews, niggers or dogs allowed" All of that is gone now. We learned to get along and prosper.

Europe on the other hand is still fighting wars that have ended decades, and centuries ago. When there was a Soviet Union they clamped down on religious violence by eliminating religion. As soon as the Soviet Union fell they picked up the war as if it never ended. 70 years had passed and people still remembered that my great great grand father did not like your great great grand father even though we lived next door to each other for 70 years and were friends under the Soviet Union. If you keep hate in your heart for two generations then you deserve what you get.

No one was commenting on the method used, only on the fact is is possible.  And while force was used in the past, the 2 examples I gave had one thing in common.  They merged the respective cultures into an over all culture and for the most part did not try to treat one culture as inferior to the other.

And that is the key.

As for Washington imposing its will - what do you think the Civil war was all about?

Again, the perception is not the reality.  The Toledo war?  Quakers the same as Catholics?  Roger Williams love of Massachusetts? The Kansas Red Legs compassion for the Show me State? The State of Franklin's love fest with North Carolina?

America was a collection of conflicts.  As you noted, none as long running as some that were going on in Europe, but only because of age, not lack of desire.