Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Published on April 26, 2010 By Draginol In Elemental Dev Journals

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We have been pleasantly surprised at how this has worked out because it gives us the opportunity to look at seeing if we have time to do something we have wanted to do: Develop the RACES further.

The Kingdoms are made up by a single race (Men)

The Empires are made up of three races presently (Men, Trogs, Urxen).

However, with the reality being that people seem to much prefer to create their own factions, it may make sense for us to return to TWO pre-made races (Men and Fallen) and then use the resources saved to put in more content to let people make their own races.

So in the Faction creation screen, you would have a “Race” tab where you would design what they look like along with a very simple Strength and Weakness list.

Illustrating the point

One of the things we thought we would have to wait until a sequel would be to let players mix their races together when they build up their kingdom or empire.  Right now, you capture a city, all the people simply become your faction (and its corresponding race).

So even if you made a race of those Avatar blue guys, when you capture a city from Pariden, the city would remain populated by Men.  You would then be able to created a mixed army where they all have their strengths and weaknesses and visually look different.  So you could create a true “Last Alliance”.

Now, the trade off is that the 10 factions would be made up of only 2 premade races (Men and Fallen) but there’d be enough assets available then to let players create their own Orcs or Dwarves or Elves or Space Smurfs or what have you and then let players create a mixed empire.

So Men might have a +1 bonus to say Economy. Fallen might get a +1 bonus to their attack rating. Then players could also create (for instance) Elves who get a +1 to the range of their archers or any number of other differences plus they would visually look different.  From this, in post-release we could explore other ramifications.

What do you think?


Comments (Page 8)
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on Apr 29, 2010

Cities should produce citizens of the race that inhabits them. But if there are many races and you must design your own units, then you have to design one more unit per race you conquered. Which means more work and micromanagement, as you have to design units yourself. So it would probably be best to reduce the number of races to a minimum.

on Apr 29, 2010

I think it won't require designing different units - when you produce a unit of a different race, it will just get some bonuses/penalties to its attributes. Only the visuals can be a problem, if you design the appearance of a unit, when it's another race it will look different.

on Apr 29, 2010

I don't think this poll is a very good test.  Without any flavor text, graphics, or back story to differentiate them, it is no wonder that none of us are at all attached to the established factions.  You'll notice that the faction with the most votes is the one for which we have learned a little back story.

A 1+ to this or that stats bonus isn't going to make anyone attached to a particular race.  You need to make them live a breathe before we're going to care one way or another.

on May 13, 2010

Outstanding. This is excatly what I wanted to hear. Good work guys

on May 13, 2010

KellenDunk
How would this change affect the campaign?  

 Does it really matter? I mean how many really play the campaign that comes with TBS games? I know I rarely do unless I can play it with custom races.

If the campaign has to take a hit in order for use to have good customization tools then I say let it take the hit. Customization is much more important then any campaign.

 

on May 13, 2010

Bellack
I mean how many really play the campaign that comes with TBS games?

I do.

on May 13, 2010

Bellack

mean how many really play the campaign that comes with TBS games?

 

Quote by PawelS

I do.

As do I. In some games (like Age of Wonders) the campaign is much more challenging and fun then regular scenarios since in the campaign the developers made sure to put hard challenges on the hardest difficulty while the regular scenarios may or may not be challenging.

 

However, the campaign is only good for 2 playthoughs if there's no alternative paths and such.

on May 13, 2010

Aye, I play the campaign as well. Of note, King Arthur had multi-path campaign ... even if choices were limited. Perhaps interesting backbone to place as a Foil vs any Elemental Campaign plans?

on May 13, 2010

Am i the only one to think that if people choose custom factions over premade ones, it's because the premades ones aren't appealing enough ? Maybe it would be better to work on improving the premade factions so that people choose them thinking "wow, a slave master draconian blood spitting faction, how cool !" ?

In Gal Civ 2 i loved to play the pre made factions/races, because, well, destroying the galaxy with your drengin psychotic furred enslaving fleet was just... fun. In Elemental, i dont get that feeling yet : when i face the selection screen, i just pick the faction with the bonus i want, and that's it. We need some cool factions !
KellenDunk
How would this change affect the campaign?  

 

 I think your in the minority. I know that in GAL Civ 2 I rarly played as the stock races I did use them as opponets but I enjoyed playing against custom races better. But the more races in the game the better both custom and stock.

 

on May 14, 2010

AlphaLegion
Please keep it the way it is, GalCiv 2 was awesome everyone loves making their own race, but the other races had depth to them and i often played as them to get a feel for a certain style of gameplay.

Now i don't mean to be rude or anything but i do not want a bunch of Avatars, Necrons, and who knows what in my games, i preffer to play game against factions preset by you guys and possibly using a faction i've twisted around a little. You need to promote the factions a little more, i've tried looking them up and at this stage they are all the same.

Let modders, make new races, let players make new factions. Keep what you have because it is great, im personally anticipating learning more about the races and factions of elemental, not what some other person has created that does nto belong in the game.

 

Well I will disagree with you of coarse. In GalCiv2 the races that came with the game did not have more 'depth' than custom races that you create.

Had I'd perfer that we be given the tools to customize our own races the way we want instead of letting modders do it.

There should be several stock races with the game but allows the USER FRIENDLY tools to create races just as in depth as the stock races without having to know some programmers language.

 

on May 14, 2010

AlphaLegion
please leave it to the modders to make races, playing against custom races sucked in GalCiv, preset races/factions are much funner.

Playing against custom races was great in GalCiv2 not sure why you think other wise. Perhaps you did not know how to make custom races so you did it poorly. The most fun that my frinds and I have had in that game was playing with and agienst the custom races.

on May 15, 2010

"What if you removed the ability to customize your race/faction near the end of the beta test to help improve the built-in ones specifically?  Testers would only use the built-in races to help refine/tweak them further."

Yep, I think it would be good to disable customizing factions and sovereigns both for a while.  Doesn't have to be near the end though.

 

on May 17, 2010

GW Swicord
I saw this 'late,' but I'm glad to see several folks typing much along the lines I would have. As usual, PigeonPigeon says much that I've been thinking and does it a bit more clearly than I probably would have. I completely agree with MagicwillNZ:

Now wait a sec. It was a little premature to even have that poll, factions flat and undetailed as they are right now. Improving races is absolutely fine, but not at the cost of making pre-existing factions undiverse and uninteresting.

I might not be exactly the same type of gamer that Mandelik describes in reply 43, but I very much share a conviction that strong, well-connected back story is invaluable for immersion, and if done extremely well it should also enhance replayability. I also fully agree with Goontrooper's list of priorities in reply 48.

Elemental could be the first game that gets me reliably interested in mods, but I am distinctly worried about how often devs seem to brush aside design ideas, including some of their own, with a Marie Antoinette-esque "let them use mods." I want the game to be a full meal in its own right. Mods are for dessert.

This is what I want to say too.  

It is time to revisit the thread "What should happen when you capture a town?"   A new suggestion I've now (or did some one have already suggested a similar already? from the Dev?), is that when you have capture a new town of made of same race, you keep the population (even if it is of different fraction).   But when the town is made up of a different race,  the city population goes to 0.   This does not mean ethnic cleansing, it simply means you cannot use any of the local pop as your workforce.   Those pop of  the other race will be deplaced to the neighbouring cities (that accept them as workforce) or into the wild gradually.

This way should be a much better way to handle city capture than what OP mentioned.

on May 17, 2010

Climber
It is time to revisit the thread "What should happen when you capture a town?"   A new suggestion I've now (or did some one have already suggested a similar already? from the Dev?), is that when you have capture a new town of made of same race, you keep the population (even if it is of different fraction).   But when the town is made up of a different race,  the city population goes to 0.   This does not mean ethnic cleansing, it simply means you cannot use any of the local pop as your workforce.   Those pop of  the other race will be deplaced to the neighbouring cities (that accept them as workforce) or into the wild gradually.

This way should be a much better way to handle city capture than what OP mentioned.

I think it would be more fun to be able to keep cities of other races, like in MoM and AoW.

on May 18, 2010

PawelS, Are you the same PawelS at my AOWSM days?  

"I think it would be more fun to be able to keep cities of other races, like in MoM and AoW."

This is the real question.   No one want to play just 1 fraction the whole game; but if you can utilize whatever race/fraction you capture, your starting race/fraction does not matter, because you end up with a broad mix of fraction anyway after the mid game.    I hope this game ends up in the middle of this spectrum.

Other than my reply 118, another way can be used.   All fractions are arranged in a circle, fraction 1 sitting next to fraction 2, 2 next to 3, etc.  If you are playing with fraction 2, you can capture towns of fraction 1 & 3  to utilize its population.   Fraction 1 & 3 is "compatible" to fraction 2.   

This idea can be further modified (when balance/lore requires it) that fraction 2 can be compatible with 10 and 4, or even some out-of-the-way compatibility with fraction 8.

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