Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
How to debate effectively on-line
Published on January 17, 2004 By Draginol In Philosophy
One of the things I've been surprised about on forums, and I wrote a post about this recently, is just how poor at debating many younger debaters are. They seem interested in debating but it's as if they have no idea how to debate. Debating isn't just arguing. It is an exchange of ideas in which both sides try to make the case for their position. Lawyers in court, in theory, debate. They dont' just yell back and forth "Did so!" "Did not!" for hours until the judge flogs them.

Highschools used to have debate classes. I don't know if they still do. I'm only 32 so I was young enough still to grow up with computers and BBSes and such. But today's young adults have had the Internet for most of their lives. You would think their skills would be sharper. They think that debates are pointless. Or that they're just arguments in which loud mouthed people trade epitephs back and forth. They're not. Debates offer a way for us to exchange ideas, thoughts, and opinions. They aren't there to "win" or "lose". They are there to make us think about things. I dont' want to pick purely on younger people, I see people of all ages trying to demonstrate their intellectual ineptitude to the world. But younger people tend to be the ones who take the most simplistic positions on issues and then insist that those who disagree with them are idiots or (my favorite) "ignorant".

Being good at debating isn't really that hard. There are basically 3 rules:

(1) Target subject matter that you have an interest in and have sufficient back ground knowledge. I don't know anything about, for instance, broadway musicals. So I wouldn't interject myself in a debate about the merits of one musical or another. Other subjects have a lot of material readily available. The most obvious one being history. People who haven't bothered to invest time reading history annoy those who have in debates because no one likes to have to sit down and do the leg work for some ignorant loud mouth. Go onto a World War II Usenet forum and you'll see a lot of aggravation as some neophyte comes in peddling either some Internet myth or some popular culture misconception. One common example are those people who think dropping the atomic bomb on Japan was an atrocity. These are people who have clearly not spent any time reading about the Pacific war. Trivia: Why was Hiroshima chosen to drop the atomic bomb? Because the air force had flattened nearly every other major city in Japan and there were only a few cities left. There are ample interviews of Hiroshima survivors and survivors of the various Toykya incidiary attacks to realize that the horror is pretty similar either way with the difference merely being the # of planes required to inflict it.

The point being: Pick subject matters you have invested some time to learn about. I have a long list of topics I'm in the process of researchig. I have an article on Halliburton. I know the basic facts for my article but I need to do more research on it. Yes, it takes work, but if you want to have a useful discussion and not just piss people off, you need to know the topic you're choosing to write an opinion piece on.

(2) Backup your assertions with evidence if the assertion isn't one that is commonly understood by others who are reasonably famliar with the subject. Also, be specific. Avoid vague generalities in your assertion. I.e. don't say "America is a bully." say "I think America is a bully because of the seeming arrogance displayed by this administration with its high handed treatment of the UN during the Iraq crisis. There doesn't seem to have been a compelling reason to attack Iraq when it did." I would disagree with that statement but it at least has enough meat to have a discussion about. By contrast, impression does the "America is a bully" give off? To me, it sounds pathetic and simpering. The words of someone jealous of American power and success.

(3) Offer alternatives. Nit-pickers quickly earn the contempt of other debaters. Who wants to deal with people who just sit around bitching about what other people have done. Offer an alternative action. Tell them what should have been done instead.

These 3 rules will help create better debates with people and accomplish what debating is really about -- thinking about things in new and interesting ways.

Have fun!
Comments
on Jan 17, 2004
Bravo. That needed to be said. I agree with you. Sometimes, I'm amazed at what passes for a discussion.

I have but one question. Does it bother you when some people just offer their two cents, not really trying to make a point, but just offering their opinion. I'm one of those. Sometimes, I just say my peace and back away slowly.


on Jan 17, 2004
I think it's great when people post their "2 cents".

Where I would draw the line is when someone gets militant in their response to an article without backing it up.

A perfectly fine response: "Sorry, I just don't agree with this."

A bad response: "You're the reason why people hate Americans!"

The first is a simple statement of fact - they don't agree. The second is an opinion stated as fact.
on Jan 17, 2004
Ah HA! Musicals are his weakness! Mwa ha ha ha...

on Jan 17, 2004
Speaking of all this, I tend to think the word "trolling" on comment ratings should be changed. People like us who grew up with BBS's and such know what the word Trolling means, but I'm not sure the majority of people that visit here do.

At the very least add a "what's this for?" link where the rating buttons are, and explain the word trolling there.

That word is the one thing that doesn't quite "fit" on JoeUser. JoeUser is a very professional, no-nonsense blog site, but that word is complete net-slang.
on Jan 17, 2004
Hi, my name Is Lunaticus Minimus..I'm a blogcommentaholic..I like to say what's on my mind, regardless.
on Jan 18, 2004
what I have always found interesting is that sometimes the most guilty persons of bad debating are some of the intelligent people. I have seen numerous times where in some scientific forums that instead of a decent objective reply all they get is "you are wrong. you are an idiot" or something of that nature. It really makes you wonder how the person who replied got to become a scientist or if they are a pseudoscientist.
on Jan 18, 2004
I've seen that too. Sometimes you'll go into a forum where two obviously knowledgeable people are debating something that requires a great deal of knowledge to discuss name-calling each other idiots.

It's like you want to say: Guys, if you're debating quantum theory back and forth, calling each other idiot is kind of silly at that point.
on Jan 18, 2004
I get to often watch people with obviously SUPERIOR intelligence and knowledge on a topic simply break down into NYAH NYAH YOU'RE JUST A STUPID IDIOT...(and use their advanced vocabulary to insult the other person further)..
How childish, how frequent it happens. And how often people flock to these charming quasi-moral flakes.

Any idiot can argue.
on Jan 20, 2004
I agree, any idiot can argue but debating is a whole different level. For some reason the Monty Python skit of, "We're not arguing." "Yes we are!" popped into my head

It is very disappointing when people go the childish route and start calling each other names. If you are mature and confident in your argument, there is never any need for that. Just walk away from the discussion if you feel the person just can't be reached. Some people are just too defensive or too dense to ever concede.

Good article.
on Jan 20, 2004
Gosh, what a pathetically moronic article. This guy obviously has some issues. I mean honestly, this is why other countries hate America.



Good article.

~Dan
on Jan 20, 2004
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