My parents had their house paid for and a reasonable pension, when they retired. My mother did not expect to live until she is eighty nine. Why shouldn't those of us who are well off help out our elders. Her generation fought in World War II and made tremendous sacrifices for our freedom. As for being overtaxed, our country has one of the least amount of taxes for an industrialized nation. As for domestic spending, much of the cost is for the anti-terrorism measures and fighting two wars at once. As for illegal immigration, that is one of the prices you pay for prosperity. Personally I'd rather live in a nation in which we have to try to keep people out than one for which we have to keep people in. No matter what we do, there will be some brave souls who will risk life and health to get into this country.

Hey this is an unrelated question that I hope you know the answer too... I've tried posting an article several times but it won't let me post. Do you know why that might be?

~Dan

I think a payroll tax cut or elimination would be a good thing, and a good way to silence the mantra of "tax cuts for the rich".

I would like to see a goal of eliminating the deficit, not just cutting it in half.

Ha Ha, figured out how to stop Dan from posting. Now we can say anything we want and don't have to worry about HIM anymore. Hey, I got a conspiracy theory about that too. Want to hear it Dan? 'laughs' Hope you get it working soon, Dan but had to get that in.

I think Bush is taking his supporters for granted too. I felt sorry for those who were stuck defending Clinton, and Bush is really hammering on his 'front' as a Republican as much as Clinton did as a 'Democrat'. I was listening to a new plan he is putting forth to actually take away eligibility for overtime pay for the returning vets, and it REALLY made me mad. Sooner or later, it is going to come home to roost for some Republicans and he will regret what he is doing.
The thing is, I'd trade him four more years if he would just undo what he's done in the second term. But how could I trust him to follow through if he said, "deal"?

I never thought I would live to see the day that I would propose a progressive national sales tax. The reason is that the current system boldly favors the rich regardless of the marginal rate by offering enormous shelters in which tens of thousands of dollars are set aside in order to sustain the perpetuity of the rich.
As Sheyre says, the deficit is primarily due to wars on two fronts. Aside from the prescription drugs for seniors, it was designed to protect the HMOs and pharmaceutical cronies. I agree that health care for seniors is at the expense of the younger but again as Sherye points out, do not the elderly deserve assistance? Frankly, if universal health care was in full force there would not be divisiveness of youth and seniors.
Domestic spending is a joke--we should be spending more to jump start real work like building up a deteriorating infrastructure.

"But a payroll tax would have been more effective I think for stimulating the economy"
*nods*

"And this is under a Republican congress. We've seen massive increases across the board in spending."

What should be addressed is what the money is spent *on*. For every dollar legitimately used, there are ten dollars that are slipped in on riders that go directly into the pockets of home-state flunkies and lobbying interests. If all the over-spending went back into the mainstream economy, I think the eventual returns would be enough to weather a temporary deficit.

"He should be securing that border not granting quasi-amnesty for illegal aliens."

What sucks is the pseudo-citizen status. They get to partake of our tax dollars, and happily go home and spend their wages in Mexico. I stand in line to buy stamps at the grocery store behind Mexican after Mexican wiring money home to their extended family. I think this will just make their stay here more comfortable while they earn the money to wire home.

"Why not insist more showings of the ant and the grasshopper movies to teach the concept of saving for winter instead?"

Because the response would be films of Enron employees who were bilked out of their winter stash. Inflation is inevitable, not evil, but a by-product is always gonna be that the money you save now will be a pittance by the time you need it. What would be more effective would be educating people on how to handle their *OWN* investments, or at least sink it all in bonds or something that will ensure *some* growth. Right now, "pension" is another word for loaning players money with no guarantees of return.

I don't know if anybody was going to answer my post, but I thought I might as well interject that it works now.

~Dan

What ever happened to taking care of your own? People are living longer and their kids want to pawn them off on whoever has more money. That is awful! If my mother-in-law needed it, we would take care of her. If my parents needed it, we or my sister's family would step up. If the person outlives their family or never had family to begin with, that would give cause for assistance.

I don't believe in universal health care. It is unrealistic to think it would give everyone good care. It would eliminate the possiblity of great care for some and give long waits, understaffed hospitals, and overall sub par care to all. If health care providers didn't have to pay to high heaven for liability, we could all afford better care.

Lesson learned from Enron, don't rely on stocks as your entire retirement. If you aren't putting money away in an IRA, 401(K), bonds or even just a savings account, you aren't really saving your money for retirement. Let's not forget that retirement is a fairly new concept. You used to work until you died. Of course you died a lot sooner in most cases.

I think the main problem with American society right now is people not living within their means. Everyone wants, and thinks they deserve everything. Everyone should have everything they want (not just need) and the government needs to make it so. Seemingly intelligent people live pay check to pay check paying the minimum on their numerous credit cards. Financed to the gills, they shop away. At some point, they can't keep up with it. Families break up and often divorce is blamed on financial dispair where it should be the other way around. The lines between needs and wants and rights and privileges have become too blurred.

I certainly feel it is a good thing to volutarily take care of people who need it if you are financially able. I will certainly be taking care of my aging parents in a scant few years. however I think it is totally beyond the pale for a government to tell me to take care of anyone elses parents. Take care of you and yours and I will take care of me and mine. heck I may even help yours simply because i feel charitable. Please do no try to "enforce" charity through state run programs.

My parents had their house paid for and a reasonable pension, when they retired. My mother did not expect to live until she is eighty nine. Why shouldn't those of us who are well off help out our elders.

More to the point, why can't you help your parents? Why thrust that on society?

As for being overtaxed, our country has one of the least amount of taxes for an industrialized nation.

I would hope so given that one of the primary reasons for the revolution in the first place was taxes. But turn the situation around, next time someone is protesting some freedom being taken away, are you going to say "Hey, we're one of the free-est nations on earth, so what's wrong with having a bar code tattooed to the back of our necks?"

for domestic spending, much of the cost is for the anti-terrorism measures and fighting two wars at once.

Me thinks you need to actually look up the last budget before making such statements. The spending increases have been dramatic across the board.  The EPA, the department of education (to name two things that Bush won't get any credit for over funding) are getting far greater increases in spending under Bush than they ever did under Clinton. Spending increases are out of control.

 

Reply #5 By: stevendedalus -  1/28/2004 11:32:19 PM I never thought I would live to see the day that I would propose a progressive national sales tax.

Yea, you, what a shock. Mr. "The rich don't pay enough". 

The reason is that the current system boldly favors the rich regardless of the marginal rate by offering enormous shelters in which tens of thousands of dollars are set aside in order to sustain the perpetuity of the rich.

Only in your imagination. Being one of those top 1% people myself, I have asked about those shelters and my accountants sure can't find them. Please feel free to email me a list of shelters (bwardell@stardock.com). 

How about this reality check Steve: 54% of the fed taxes are paid by the top 5% of the income earners. So whatever shelters there are, they're not doing very well.  The bottom 40% of the population pays essentially no federal income taxes. So spare us your tired old "system favors the rich". It most certainly does not.

As Sheyre says, the deficit is primarily due to wars on two fronts. Aside from the prescription drugs for seniors, it was designed to protect the HMOs and pharmaceutical cronies. I agree that health care for seniors is at the expense of the younger but again as Sherye points out, do not the elderly deserve assistance? Frankly, if universal health care was in full force there would not be divisiveness of youth and seniors. Domestic spending is a joke--we should be spending more to jump start real work like building up a deteriorating infrastructure.

You seem to have a habit of stating as fact things that are not true or at best, opinion.  Military spending did not increase anywhere near enough to account for the deficit.

Which federal infrastructure is deteriorating?

Why do the elderly "deserve" assistance? Since when is retirement a right instead of a priviledge?

Why not break down the deficit into causes by percent since you are trying to show youreself as some sort of budgetary expert now. Show us how a "two front" war is the cause. How much does Afghanistant operations cost per year? Compare it to costs of maintaining troops in Korea. Which is higher? Do you even know?

Why would universal health care remove divisiveness? Who is going to pay for it? You? The top 1% of the population already pays over a third of the taxes. The top 5% over half. So what more would you heap on them? Have you looked at the results of universal health care in Canada? Is that what you would emulate?

Do you know anything of what you speak of or are you a bot repeating DNC talking points without having looked this stuff up yourself?

I certainly feel it is a good thing to volutarily take care of people who need it if you are financially able. I will certainly be taking care of my aging parents in a scant few years. however I think it is totally beyond the pale for a government to tell me to take care of anyone elses parents. Take care of you and yours and I will take care of me and mine. heck I may even help yours simply because i feel charitable. Please do no try to "enforce" charity through state run programs.

Exactly! People like Sherye are actually saying that WE should take care of her parents. Maybe she and others who feel as she does should take one less Disney trip or hold off buying that new car or big screen TV and isntead put that money into an account to take care of their parents.  I'm an only child, I have two parents who are going to need my help who I will gladly provide for. It will require tightening going without some things but they're my parents and I owe it to them. It's certainly not some stranger's duty to take care of my parents. I already work 4 months in servitude to the federal government. Another month for state and local governments. Isn't that enough? Can't I use the remaining time to help take care of my own family let alone having to forcibly pay for someone else's?

People who want others to pay for their parents medicine can put together charities where like minded people can donate to that. It's not the federal government's job to play the role of mommy to the entire population.

I have to say that I think a federally run universal health program would probably be horrible. I am a military spouse and it is one of the biggest frustrations in my life dealing with Tricare.

Locamama, you are so right. If anyone thinks it is frustrating now to get in to see the doctor, just imagine what it would be like in the hands of the government ! It is hard enough to deal with the paperwork you have with insurance you pay for yourself. Imagine the red tape involved with a fed run program. Also, I have been witness to Canada's program. You certainly wouldn't want anyone from out of country visiting. They would have to cough up cash in order to be seen. I went on a trip to Canada, a friend in the group had an accident and had a gaping wound in his hand. He was told he needed $200 cash in order to be seen. Nice!

I agree with you 100 percent, Its sad but true. hopefully he'll do a better job with the economy in he's next term. AND IM SURE HE WILL...