Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
In response to a discussion I saw
Published on January 16, 2005 By Draginol In Pure Technology

Gives me a headache just seeing someone compare evolution to space alien seeding as being "equally plausible".

Evolution is a theory. But some people here don't seem to grasp that there is a big difference between a theory and a hypothesis or even a hypothesis and a random guess pulled out of ones rear end.

There are a lot of things we don't know "for a fact".  We don't know, for a fact, precisely how gravity works. We don't know, for a fact, precisely how magnetism works.  We have pretty solid theories on these things.  Evolution is one of those kinds of theories.  Luckily, most educated people do believe in evolution as it is how many of our medical advances are arriving. Whether that be genetically modified foods, DNA based medicines, studies on fruit flies and other past control systems, etc. Evolution, as a theory, is something that is applied by researchers all the time.  To equate that to a hypthesis that some magical super being just whipped everything out as-is defies any sort of sense.

Believing in evolution does not make religion false or wrong or whatever. But I'd be pretty pissed off if some ignorant religious zealots forced stickers onto my kid's science books.  Because why not stop there? Let's put stickers on everything that's a theory.

Because when you come right down to it, there's not a lot of things we know "for a fact".  Evolutions, however, is about as close to a fact as we're going to get minus a time machine to be able to sit through and watch some large bear spending increasingly high amounts of time in the water until one day, one is born with paddled feet (a deformity) and it turns out that he is better at catching food than the rest. Over time, that gene is passed on to others and fast forward millions of years and you have whales who still, in their skeleton, have the remnants of leg bones.  Or the example of birds in the Pacific where flightless birds dot Pacific islands and no mammals or reptiles live since you would need flight to have gotten there in thef irst place.  Or the cases of elephants who got trapped on Madagascar milliosn of years ago when the island broke off from Africa and ended up tiny (unfortunately, the natives killed them all shortly after they arrived). 

The fossil record AND the DNA record is replete with examples of how evolution has worked. The actual lab evidence backs up the theories of specieis evolving into new species.  Reading some of these posts make sme wonder if some people have bothered to even read up on evolution or whether they're stuck with the propaganda fed to them 30 years ago.  Just in the past 5 or so years, thanks to DNA research, we've confirmed many aspects of evolution. And we rely on the mechanisms of evolution for all kinds of research that we benefit from every day.  If you don't believe in evolution, you should probably stop eating things like corn or oranges and when you see a dog, just close your eyes and say "you're not here..you're not here" because one wouldn't want to recognize the obvious changes dogs have undergone just in the past 10,000 years due to human tampering with dogs (imagine how much they'd change given 10 million years).


Comments
on Jan 16, 2005
What I don't understand about most people waving the creationism banner, is why can't they adapt to new knowledge? It seems entirely plausable to me to say that evolution is a divinely guided process. If you look at how impossibly complex it would seem to be to get a lifeform from ooze to human being, it's not so difficult to think that maybe the path was nudged this way and that over time, guiding us to where we are now.

We used to think we were the center of the entire Universe... we aren't.. we've adapted (or rather just dropped the claim)
We used to think that the world was only a few thousand years old... it's older.. we've adapted (or, again we just dropped the claim for the most part)
We used to say that non-whites were inherently inferior and used the bible to back it up... (no I don't remember the specific reference for this one)

People who say religion is unchanging need to look a bit closer at history. A lot of things we said were the word of God and therefore always right, have been disproven. We all survived. Society didn't crumble when we switched to the heliocentric solar model. The same will happen when Evolution is finally accepted universally.

Look at science as mans path towards understanding God... because if God is embodied in all living things, then the more we understand everything around us, the closer we come to God.
on Jan 16, 2005
What I don't understand about most people waving the creationism banner, is why can't they adapt to new knowledge?


Glory Hallelujah and Thank you!!!!

The arguments against science or spirituality both seem to be based on the assumption that we now know all that we will ever know about each.

Science challenges believers with things like, "using scientific method, prove to me there is a god".

On the same token, believers look to science saying, "there can be no evolution, but God did it all in six days".

Well, science, are you saying that we understand everything so much right now that nothing will ever be invented or discovered which will allow for the existence of God?

Believers, is your understanding of scripture and the things of the spirit so perfect that no further understanding is possible?


Excelleng article Draginol (even if I don't agree with it completely, you make great points and invite better discussion)

Great point Zooma!
on Jan 17, 2005

You confuse equate with alternate theories.  While I dont believe in Alien seeding, I do not totally discount it.  For as long as we wont know, then the truth can be anything.

I do believe in Evolution, and I do believe in creationism (just not like the way the Bible describes it).

But to discount out of hand any theory just because you do not believe in it (as there is evidence for them, just not compelling like evolution) is to shut off possibilities.

Delve into the theory and prove or disprove it.  But dont shut off the others you do not believe in.  Some day, they (alternate theories) may hold the proof that has so far eluded others.

Remember the lesson of Edison and the Light bulb.  Sometimes the solution comes from an area you least expect.

on Jan 17, 2005
excellent article, Brad
on Jan 18, 2005
Sure the truth can be anything. Maybe the entire universe was created 6 seconds ago complete with false memories. As Brad implied, there is a whole lot of evidence to back up the theory of evolution. What is the evidence for other theories? Science is about sifting the evidence, finding the best theory that fits all the facts, all of them, not just the ones you like. I don't expect warning stickers in science texts saying that the Rab theory of 6 second old universe (make that 30 seconds now unless I just have a 6 second old false memory of 24 seconds ago) also deserves consideration.
on Jan 18, 2005
I just LOVE Rab's theory. (Unless of course, the universe is actually only 6 seconds old now, in which case I just LOVE the false memory of Rab's theory.)
on Jan 18, 2005

William Herbert Carruth (1859-1924) actually wrote a poem about this very topic; Each in his own Tongue. The debate today has evolved (no pun) into whether or not we need stickers on our textbooks telling our children about this debate. Couldn't the state or county or whatever have simply bought books that pointed out that evolution is a theory and not fact? Or aren't there any out there? Could they not have instructed their teachers to make a disclaimer when teaching this subject (i.e., not everyone agrees with this theory; why not talk to your parents about it)? Wouldn't that have been cheaper? It seems to me the real reason to get angry is the money wasted on stickers.

 

Personally I think we should be teaching that the Earth is hollow. The Earth being solid is only a theory anyway, I mean have you ever been there?. Hollow Earth Insider. It's also flat. Flat and hollow. Flat Earth Society.

 

And no, I am not suggesting that either the theory of evolution or the religious belief that God created the world in 6 days are ridiculous. I'm just pointing out that we all have our beliefs and parents are responsible for passing on some of that knowledge. What is taught in schools is only - should only be - the groundwork for a lifetime of learning.

on Jan 19, 2005
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/scopes/scopes.htm

Point of fact, it was 80 years ago that Christians and the Church world wide were completely humiliated....

Point of fact, it's Newton's Law of Gravity. It's not going to change. The equation is always true given the construct and requirements of the experiment. Einstien extended this to deal with space time, but it didn't affect or invalidate Newton's laws at all. Acceleration due to gravity at sea level is 9.8 m/s. You can calculate what it will be at any radius for any mass of objects using the following equation: g = (M1 x M2) / r^2. Magnetisim is also a law, that happens to use exactly the same equation, which is also used in parellel plate experiments etc .etc. Anyone see a patern? I sure do. The above equation is always true, in every case anywhere in the universe.

Point of fact that Christians need to realize: A theory is only a theory because it is continuing to be refined and made more exact. (i.e. Evolve ) A theory has been proven scientifically and is correct. It simply has more to learn that will make it even more correct. That chances of it ever being proved wrong are less likely than someone actually proving that God exists (which if you read my blog, you'll know is pretty much 0) My point is that a theory is much like a definition. A definition can always be refined, but a proper and good definition will never be contradicted. (hence why so many dictionaries are just so damn bad, it's because they don't understand what the definition of a definition is )

Reality is a bitch. People tend to ignore reality as much as possible. They're also the people that talk out of their ass because they're also believers in subjectivity and believe that everyone is wrong and can't possibly be right (or believe that they were born with original sin and thus are evil from birth and can be nothing more than not bad in their lives), therefore, they're just as likely to be wrong speaking BS as if they put some effort into it, so there's nothing wrong with talking out their ass. The religious right that is perpetrating this fraud has learned from the likes of Kant, Marx and Stalin and is trying to use the same obviscation techniques to render reality ineffectual and give people an excuse to shut off their brains. Be wary, it's this very tactic that has allows socialism in any form to worm it's way into our society as it is now dispite the end result of socialism always being death if you take it to it's logical conclusion (but then if you do, you're an extremist... presumably because you point out reality which subjectivists hate).

on Jan 20, 2005

My feelings about this are mixed, for one, science has proven, to the extent that anything can be proven, that evolution exists.  Species change over time, the definition of what evolution is, and denial of that is flawed.  On the other hand, creationism, in the since that the beginning of the universe and the existence of God, can not be proven.  Having said that, I believe that schools should be required to have classes on religion and philosophy.  For that matter, I feel that all students should be required to learn latin, but that's another debate.

To John Galt, Newton's Law of Gravity is incorrect, in order to determine the incorrectness, however, you have to be dealing with things that we don't normally deal with.  Such as black holes or quarks.

Anyway, I'm totally opposed to disclaimers of any sort because everyone ought to be completely responsible for whatever they say. (and as much as I hate emoticons)

Cheers

on Jan 22, 2005
...dispite the end result of socialism always being death if you take it to it's logical conclusion...


The end result of everything is "death if you take it to it's logical conclusion". Most notably, life.