Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Trolls on a mission..
Published on February 11, 2005 By Draginol In Personal Computing

..I'm in a ranting mood...stand back!

Over the years I've noticed a pretty consistent thing - there are people who really really have a problem with the concept of people making a living selling software.

As a result, some of these people make it their mission to go out and harass people (like me) who make a living selling software. 

One example came up today. I am a news moderator on the popular tech news site Neowin.net. I think it's a fantastic site with an incredible staff of volunteers.  But it has a sizeable user population of "l33t" users who a) Think they know everything on tech because, well they're 19 years old and they know everything doncha know? and Non-free software is the devil and any level of nastiness is justified to thwart the purveyers of evil.

One guy today went so far to create an account called "ToadLad" (my account name there is "Frogboy"). Get it? Toad = Frog. Lad = Boy.  Very clever...

Since I post software news on Neowin I also post Stardock's press releases too. On other sites, our media relations goddess does this. But since I'm a news moderator on Neowin, it makes sense for me to go ahead and do this since, essentially I would be the one who would end up approving the final news item.

But this guy went onto a rant that essentially went like this "You just love to spam the world with your crap? You've already got Stardock.com and WinCustomize.com? Why do you have to spam your stuff here?" Here being a Technology NEWS site. And spam being news for software that is (god forbid) not free.

For those not ambitious enough to create fake users to troll the comments, you also have the people who insist on trying to rationalize that any good commercial product has a freeware equivalent.  Photoshop? Oh, the Gimp is much better. Terminal Server? Loser, VNC.  WindowBlinds? No, just hack your uxtheme.dll.  And now with our upcoming Multiplicity program we've got the same crowd chimes in with "Oh, you can do the same thing with Synergy!"

In most of these cases (almost all these cases) these "l33t" users have never actually used the commercial product (see "evil" above).  But they just know because they know everything.  Who cares if the "Free" program has a lot fewer features or is flakey or requires hours of setup time to work? When you're 19, time is all that matters and $20 or whatever is big money to someone who's source of income is their mom. 

I have nothing against free software. I use a lot of free software.  In fact, I use free software whenever I can. I'll take free over commercial any day if it does what I need it to do.  But there is nothing inherently magical about free software. And the downside is that most free software I run into (not all of course, there are very well known examples) have the 80% problem.  They work -- almost.  They tend to often be more proof of concept.

"Sure the screen flickers when you switch desktops and you can't play a full screen game while using it and you have to configure the machines using a text file with arcane configuration fields and it sometimes disconnects for no reason requiring you to reboot...but...it's free!"

I don't think I have a problem so much with the people who try to promote a freeware program. Hey, more power to them. I take the view that people who might potentially buy our product will try out the free alternative, try ours and make their own conclusion.

What I do have a problem with are the people who intentionally go out of their way to try to stifle my right to promote our software.  The double-standards really irritates me. As if free software somehow deserves special treatment because it's "free".  I don't think users should make such distinctions in terms of what gets reported, only in terms of when someone makes a decision on what to actually use.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Feb 12, 2005
Lantec
Personally I've NEVER come across free software. Either I've gotten a program that was a CRIPPLED advertisement for a better version or I've received a program that constantly DISPLAYS advertising while I use it or I had to go to a site filled with advertising to obtain it.


Come on Man, you've got Developer in your Identity. Surely you have SourceForg in your Favorites? http://sourceforge.net/index.php [SourceForge.net] There's more Freeware there than you can shake a stick at. Roughly 104507 Projects in the works.


Brad
For those not ambitious enough to create fake users to troll the comments, you also have the people who insist on trying to rationalize that any good commercial product has a freeware equivalent. Photoshop? Oh, the Gimp is much better. Terminal Server? Loser, VNC. WindowBlinds? No, just hack your uxtheme.dll. And now with our upcoming Multiplicity program we've got the same crowd chimes in with "Oh, you can do the same thing with Synergy!"


Here is another marginaliztion and over generalization. You are trying to wrap, someone that believes that your products have equivalant alternatives, in the same guise as that of someone that is purposfully attempting to elicit purposefully, a series of incitefull and pointless comments (Troll.) This is nothing more than a slam attempt to dilute your detracors arguments.


You say this is a 'RANT' what is actually is Sir, is a thinly disguised biggoted Statement. Any attempts to paint it otherwise is a falseness. You think you are being an advocate for StarDocks products right now, but you are doing a disservice to yourself and your Company.


Need proof?
I have nothing against free software. I use a lot of free software. In fact, I use free software whenever I can. I'll take free over commercial any day if it does what I need it to do. But there is nothing inherently magical about free software. And the downside is that most free software I run into (not all of course, there are very well known examples) have the 80% problem. They work -- almost. They tend to often be more proof of concept.



Insert any Minority in there wherever you have Free Software. Gives it a different feel, doesn't it? How about throwing a Religion in there, to see how wrong it sounds? You'd be ashamed to say that in public, but when it's about software it's ok, right? Wrong! Bigotry is wrong period, and disuising it, attaching it to a Corporate website as a 'RANT', and parading it in public, is Stupid and Wrong. I think you need to rethink this thread, and apologize and be quiet.
on Feb 12, 2005

You don't want people spamming your site and other sites don't want you spamming theirs

A Software News item in the Software News section of a Software News website is hardly spam.  If someone has a problem with Neowin's news posting policy, they should take it up with the admins. Not harass the news posters.

I was asked to be a news poster on Neowin specifically so that Neowin could get its Stardock news directly from me rather than through PR. And hence the "commercial software is evil" folks would learn this if they actually went through the proper channels there.

But I am only using Neowin as an illustration because this sort of thing happens everywhere on the net.  We're not talking about spamming some poor site's message board. We're talking about news items in the appropriate section. And those who seem to be on a mission to harass commercial developers always show up.

I'm obviously not surprised about it - I've been seeing this for years. I am just calling them out.

As for people who object to articles on commercial software being on WinCustomize, well feel free to start your own site.  No one forces someone to read this. And on the main page of WC it is a single link. Before, I used to post blogs as full news items so I would say this is a much better system for those people.

on Feb 12, 2005
Cygnus, Even sourceforge has advertising. Understand, I'm not complaining, but if I have to look at any advertising then the site is not "free" They offer free software so that they can get a few advertising dollars. I do appreciate the developers of software like Spybot. The thing is obtaining the software "free". In the good old days you could get it directly from the developer at places like the compuserve forums. But if you realize that you were paying $22.50/hr for a 1200 baud connection you see it is still not free.
on Feb 12, 2005
I see your argument, and then expand... Nothing is free, then. The connection cost $$$, The Computer to use free cost $$$ and so on, the progression is never ending, in a strictly adhered to argument your are 100% correct. So I will not refute you further on that point, without more defined parameters. I believe ~touche~ is the term.
on Feb 12, 2005
I'm not trying to be a smarta** just wanted to point out that no matter how you try someone will make money off of your work. It's just best to let it be you.
on Feb 12, 2005
Your article was insightful but it has the wrong title. You never wrote about about capitalism , which is an economic system , but the selling of software. By the way, capitalism is bad, it promotes competion which creates casualties and fosters hate but, it's the best we got so, that makes it right?
on Feb 12, 2005

Your article was insightful but it has the wrong title. You never wrote about about capitalism , which is an economic system , but the selling of software. By the way, capitalism is bad, it promotes competion which creates casualties and fosters hate but, it's the best we got so, that makes it right?

You are oh so wrong.  It allows anyone with the will to get ahead.  It does not stifle creativity or production.  It fosters it.  Allowing someone to benefit from their own initiative is good, and that makes it right.  Socialism and comunism retards the creative urge of man, and shackles him with a burden not earned by him, just his fellow slackards.

on Feb 12, 2005
By the way, capitalism is bad, it promotes competion which creates casualties and fosters hate



Capitalism is an economic ideology, it cannot foster anything. Human beings foster emotional expressions, and displays of those expressions. Human Beings are directly responsible for those expressions. Capitalism cannot be resposible for anything, as I said it is an ideology. It is an inannimate representation of a Human Beings thought process, concerning a single facet of Commerce. Being inannimate it cannot there affect anything.

Also we as Americans initially tried communism, and it did not work. Don't believe me? Look into the way the very initial Settlers distrubuted their crops, chores and responsibilities. It was determined after they almost starved to death, that Capitalism was the actual way to go, and then they , survived, propered and became todays society.
on Feb 12, 2005
There is nothing wrong with free software, just like there is nothing wrong with commercial software. There are very good free products, and there are very good commercial products. There are half-arsed free products, and there are half-arsed commercial products. The main difference IMO is that when I have bugs in a free product, I shrug and I tell myself "Oh well, at least I didn't pay for this", but when I find bugs in a commecial prodcuts, I'm a bit less forgiving.
on Feb 12, 2005
man... what a thread.

must read the whole thing sometime

Oh and by the way, for those against the JU - WC joining, keep in mind that this is an article, not a forum post. WC forum is he upper most part called General. All others are a mix of JU and WC
on Feb 12, 2005
Joe - indeed, the reason this article is on both is that WC and JoeUser both share personal computing areas.  The issue isn't JoeUser but rather that WinCustomize now covers Personal Computing topics.
on Feb 12, 2005
Is that to say that all the topics under personal computing are the only WC items in both?
on Feb 12, 2005

Need proof?
I have nothing against free software. I use a lot of free software. In fact, I use free software whenever I can. I'll take free over commercial any day if it does what I need it to do. But there is nothing inherently magical about free software. And the downside is that most free software I run into (not all of course, there are very well known examples) have the 80% problem. They work -- almost. They tend to often be more proof of concept.



Insert any Minority in there wherever you have Free Software. Gives it a different feel, doesn't it? How about throwing a Religion in there, to see how wrong it sounds? You'd be ashamed to say that in public, but when it's about software it's ok, right? Wrong! Bigotry is wrong period, and disuising it, attaching it to a Corporate website as a 'RANT', and parading it in public, is Stupid and Wrong. I think you need to rethink this thread, and apologize and be quiet.

I...I...I must be misunderstanding you. Surely I misunderstand your meaning. You cannot be comparing a software that is bought and sold in the general marketplace to religion? Or to human beings? I must be wrong. Please tell me I'm wrong.

on Feb 12, 2005

LanTech:

I'll write up an article that explains in more detail but articles that are of the topic OS Customization, Personal Computing, or Internet show up on both JU and WC. Other topics aren't displayed here.  JU has something like 100 categories, 3 of which are syndicated here.

on Feb 12, 2005

Insert any Minority in there wherever you have Free Software. Gives it a different feel, doesn't it? How about throwing a Religion in there, to see how wrong it sounds? You'd be ashamed to say that in public, but when it's about software it's ok, right? Wrong! Bigotry is wrong period, and disuising it, attaching it to a Corporate website as a 'RANT', and parading it in public, is Stupid and Wrong. I think you need to rethink this thread, and apologize and be quiet.

Cygnus, do you realize how far off the deep end you are sounding? As Cordelia observes, it's pretty strange to compare software to human beings or religions.

It's like calling someone a bigot because they find that paved roads are more useable than dirt roads or that they prefer jet aircraft to propeller driven aircraft.  If anyone needs to "apologize" it's you for throwing around flame bait (such as accusing me of being "bigoted").

Most free software I download from the net has the problem of not feeling totally complete. That is an engineering/time issue. Not a "bigoted" issue. 

Perhaps if you wrote software for a living you would understand this better.  The last 20% of a software project is tedious tweakig, polish, fixing of weird behaviors, etc.  And most people who write software for free are doing it for personal enjoyment and gratification. And so that last 20% of the project, being tedious, tends not to get the attention it needs.  Commercial software, generally, gets that attention because it needs it in order to entice people to pay for it.

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