Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Losing jobs overseas...
Published on March 5, 2005 By Draginol In Business

American college graduates are making themselves increasingly vulnerable to outsourcing. I'm not the only one who thinks this. A top Intel executive has expressed this concern too.

The problem is that American technology workers have a lethal combination upon graduation: A sense of entitlement and a lack of skills. 

The sense of entitlement is the from the belief that simply graduating with a degree in engineering, computer science, information technology, etc. somehow should entitle them to a high paying ($40k to $50k) job right away. 

The lack of skills has to do with the poor quality of college education these days in these fields. They don't keep up well. I've yet to meet a technology major college graduate who actually benefited from their formal "education".  The talented people we meet on the net are often in a scenario where we have to simply wait for them to finish college before hiring them.  Their degree made no difference in hiring, them, it simply delayed their hiring and slowed down their development on projects with us.

How much someone makes is dependent on how much "wealth" they produce.  A person making $40k per year has to be able to generate at least $120k in "wealth" to be fully secure in their position.

If I make a product that will make $1 million during its effective lifetime, I obviously can't spend more than that if I want to stay in business.  Since Americans don't really care that much about WHERE something is made, my products and services have to compete with products made by people all over the world (as well as with "freeware").  Look at all the people who bellyache'd last month about RightClick costing $14.95!

So how much we can pay someone is dependent on how much they produce. Typically, it takes quite awhile for someone to be able to produce high quality results in high enough quantity.  Many (most) Americans aren't willing to go without even if it's to their long-term benefit to sacrifice short-term.

When I founded Stardock, I was very poor for the first few years.  In its first year, the company made less than $15k. My (ahem) "salary" was obviously less than that.  It wasn't for a long while before I was able to make more than what I could have made had I simply taken an engineering job. But that short-term sacrifice led to greater long-term opportunities. Increasingly, I see fewer Americans willing to do that -- but I also see plenty of Europeans who are willing to.

The Americans we hire in the technology area typically start at far less for two reasons. One, because we're a fun place to work at for most people and two, because we have a consistent record of rewarding those who increase their skills and output with significant increases in salary. 

But where we can't find someone to do the job, we don't discriminate, we'll look to anyone we can do the job and that increasingly means Europeans who are willing to sacrifice short-term for long term gain.

If Americans want to make the big bucks right out of college without fear of being outsourced then they need to dramatically increase their skills. And the first step would be to get our education system improved so that college graduates don't require a few years of training before they can produce anything of real value.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Mar 07, 2005

Kobrano has a much different understanding of business than I do (to put it mildly).

Ones dominance in a market does not strictly determine the size of a company. The size of a market and ones penetration in that market determines the size of the company much more so.

You can be 2% of a $10 billion industry and be a much bigger company than the company who has 80% of a $10 million market.

Stardock looks to work with the best and brightest no matter where they are. That means often times those people are not in the United States.

DesktopX's lead developer, btw, is in Italy and there is no freeware alternative to what it does nor is Konfabulator the same.  Konfabulator competes with ONE of DesktopX's features (and not even the main feature people use DesktopX for). Italy is not some third world country.

And finally, no where have I condemned American workers.  I simply stated my observation that American college students are not graduating with the skills and tools needed to compete in the emerging global technology market. That Intel executives also share that view should be a wake up call to the typical 4 year engineering/CS student who thinks they're entitled to a $40k+ job on graduation. 

on Mar 07, 2005

BTW.. Well said, Greenreaper.

on Mar 07, 2005
That Stardock outsources anything overseas I am suprised to discover. That they "had" to outsource overseas I find hard to believe. It does not change my opinion (not that mine matters more than others) which is favorable, but I do find it interesting.
I would love to know how many positions Stardock has had to outsource, ,although I do not expect a specific answer and would not blame them.
on Mar 07, 2005
It's perhaps not so much "had to contract work out for monetary reasons" (I'm pretty sure Stardock has contracted work out to US people, too) as "the people who were doing the cool stuff were in Europe, so Stardock dealt with them". It's not like Stardock had fully-formed product specs that they sent out to prospective foreign programmers for the lowest quote - these are the original developers who came up with the ideas that Stardock is hiring. If you want to get into desktop customization on Windows, and there's someone who happens to have made a good start on (but not sold or fully-developed) a cool new skinning product (let's call it "WindowBlinds"), and you don't have a lot of money up-front to pay them, it makes a lot more sense for all concerned for you to sign a deal with the people who made it to continue working on it and start selling copies almost immediately rather than wasting time and effort making a duplicate and competing with them in the marketplace (remember, it was a very small marketplace then!).

Then, naturally, if in the future they have more time free and you have ideas, you're quite likely to say "hey, would you be interested in doing this as well?" - because you trust them, you've worked with them before, you know you can rely on them to do a good job (all things that are lacking when you make a new hire). It's just good business sense! If some guy in Nebraska had come up with the idea and made it happen, then things might have worked out differently, but that's the nature of ideas - there are smart people all over the world, and you can't pick and choose where innovation comes from. All Stardock can do is make sure that the revenue goes to a US company rather than a foreign one - and that Uncle Sam gets his share, which he wouldn't otherwise.
on Mar 08, 2005
good points, GreenReaper
on Mar 08, 2005

DesktopX is an even more apt example.  When it came time to do our OpenDoc-type desktop feature for Object Desktop we started by looking around to see if anyone had yet figured out how to put irregularly shaped things on the Windows desktop (remember, back in 1999, putting alpha blended, non-square windows on the desktop was pretty radical).  We found a young developer in Italy who was making something that could do that.

So we teamed up with him.  I do want to clarify - Stardock had the ideas, and we found developers who shared our vision.  And we didn't discriminate on where they lived.

on Mar 08, 2005
while contracting with an individual (or even a number of individuals who work independently from each other) residing outside your business' home country is outsourcing, it's a whole different thing than sacking an entire division in order to transfer its functions to foreign-based enterprise. what yall are discussing here isn't any more or less problematic (if it's a problem at all) than contracting with any consultant to develop or realize a project requiring specialized skills or knowledge. while i clearly missed your point entirely (for which i apologize), after rereading the entire thread a couple times, it appears i wasnt alone in that.
on Mar 08, 2005
while contracting with an individual (or even a number of individuals who work independently from each other) residing outside your business' home country is outsourcing, it's a whole different thing than sacking an entire division in order to transfer its functions to foreign-based enterprise.


How so? In both cases (ideally), the company has found superior product at a cheaper or equal price (quality is hard to put a price on).

The Big 3 Autos makers have done it, you just dont hear about it. The only industry that has not been able to do it is Mining, and they are kind of stuck where the sources of materials are. But even then, they have been known to close mines due to too high a price to extract the materials. The biggest varaible expense being wages.
on Apr 02, 2005

One of the biggest problems I see is that the United States is increasingly becoming more and more expensive to run a business in when compared to developing countries like China and India.

We have some groups demanding higher minimum wages. Other groups trying to expand the "Free trade" agreement all the way to Central America (which I STRONGLY disagree). And other groups more concerned helping the NEA than trying to make our high schools competitive.

It's a potent combination that will ultimately make the US comparatively suffer.

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