does 'his wife, who works at the cia, set it up' make sense to you? how is a relatively low-level operative in a large, complex organization able to pull that kinda thing off? which other cia employees have done something similar in the past (thus establishing a precedent)? or are you suggesting she was breaking new ground?

finally, isn't it much more likely wilson was selected by someone else and she was asked whether he'd be willing to go to niger?

who's the dummy? how about the 'unnamed whitehouse official' who demanded an apparent hoax be investigated, but then chose to ignore the results of that investigation because the hoax appeared to support his incorrect preconceptions?

It's not as if Wilson wasn't qualified to conduct a fact finding mission in Africa. Here is a short summary of his resume;

Ambassador Wilson serves as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. Wilson is an expert on doing business in an increasingly global community. During "Desert Shield," as Charge d'Affaires, he was responsible for the release of several hundred American hostages and the evacuation of several thousand foreigners from Iraq. He was the last official American to leave Baghdad before the Gulf War. Ambassador Wilson is a career member of the Foreign Service. His assignments have included Niamey, Niger; Lome, Togo; Pretoria, South Africa; Bujumbura, Burundi; Brazzaville, Congo; and the Department of State.

Link

Wilson also had performed a very similar mission to Niger to investigate purchases made by Iran in 1999.

All that aside, there has never been any evidence to show that Plame did anything more than suggest her husband for the mission. Even her suggesting him has not been proven. But given his experience in Africa and the fact that he had done this before, could you blame her for suggesting him?

" does 'his wife, who works at the cia, set it up' make sense to you? how is a relatively low-level operative in a large, complex organization able to pull that kinda thing off? which other cia employees have done something similar in the past (thus establishing a precedent)? or are you suggesting she was breaking new ground? "

"All that aside, there has never been any evidence to show that Plame did anything more than suggest her husband for the mission. Even her suggesting him has not been proven. But given his experience in Africa and the fact that he had done this before, could you blame her for suggesting him?"

Not true. This was already hashed out months ago at the conclusion of the Intelligence committe investigation. People like to forget it and start all over because they don't like the conclusions they reached.

If you guys want to, you can go back and read the intelligence committee's report and read the actual section on how Wilson got the job, with his wife's memo proposing he go and listing all the "contacts" he had there. There is no question she worked to get him the job, that has been found to be fact and published at the conclusion of that investigation.

Also, it is fact that Wilson lied to the press, lied to make the connection between Iraq and Niger seem less, and basically stretched the truth in order to make Bush look bad in every possible way. It is public record that once his wife was mentioned, the little bush-hater union vowed to have Rove "frog-marched" out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs.

Anyone who sees this as something more than partisan skirmishing is naive and basically a tool for those who like to distract people with bullshit like this. Wilson stepped right out of his meetings with the press bashing Bush into a senior advisor position in THE KERRY CAMPAIGN. Kerry's campaign hosted his "Truth" website that was eventually taken down in shame because it was so full of lies.

I mean, this crap was "hot" two years ago when I was writing blogs about it. I find it amazing that people can still be engaged enough to find real outrage.

does 'his wife, who works at the cia, set it up' make sense to you? how is a relatively low-level operative in a large, complex organization able to pull that kinda thing off? which other cia employees have done something similar in the past (thus establishing a precedent)? or are you suggesting she was breaking new ground? finally, isn't it much more likely wilson was selected by someone else and she was asked whether he'd be willing to go to niger?

Wow, Kingbee. What cave have you been living in? His wife being heavily involved in getting him the assignment isn't speculation at this point, it's already documented fact.

Well, if we want to be completely accurate we should say that the committee did not officially conclude that Plame suggested Wilson for the trip. Pat Roberts included this is his addendum to the report. The Democrat members of the committee did not agree with that conclusion. The case can be made that she did in fact send him, but that wasn't in the official findings of the committee as a whole.

Roberts made the case that she suggested him based on a memo from the State Department. This memo has been disputed by the CIA.

Sources said the CIA is angry about the circulation of a still-classified document to conservative news outlets suggesting Plame had a role in arranging her husband's trip to Africa for the CIA. The document, written by a State Department official who works for its Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), describes a meeting at the CIA where the Niger trip by Wilson was discussed, said a senior administration official who has seen it.

CIA officials have challenged the accuracy of the INR document, the official said, because the agency officer identified as talking about Plame's alleged role in arranging Wilson's trip could not have attended the meeting. Link

Even if you believe that she suggested him, I still have a hard time accepting the fact that people suggest that he wasn't qualified for the mission.

Davad, to me it sounds like we're circling the central issue.  I wasn't suggesting he wasn't qualified, only that once he started his crusade to discredit Bush that people would start looking very hard as to why the CIA sent this guy.

Wilson wasn't sent by the state department.  He was sent by the CIA.  That his wife just so happens to work for the CIA looks pretty damning doesn't it? 

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that his wife had nothing to do with it.  Fine.  The CIA was still stupid to send him because when he came back and started trashing the Bush administration it was only a matter of time before someone noticed that his wife works for the CIA and that it is awfully odd that somone who was so partisan be tapped for such a mission. 

If he had been sent by say the State Department or congress, that would be a totally different thing.  But the CIA sent him and that's the clincher.

go back and read the intelligence committee's report and read the actual section on how Wilson got the job, with his wife's memo proposing he go and listing all the "contacts" he had there. There is no question she worked to get him the job, that has been found to be fact and published at the conclusion of that investigation

i've read and reread it so many times i'm embarassed to assign a number. more times than can be considered healthy.

i can't recall ever concluding nor agreeing ms plame was responsible for much more than arranging the meeting to which davad70 refers. at risk of adding even more confusing layers of speculation (dammit, im gonna have to reread the report one more time i guess), something there led me to feel powell called the wilson shot.

Wow, Kingbee. What cave have you been living in? His wife being heavily involved in getting him the assignment isn't speculation at this point, it's already documented fact

documented? it's part of a document. fact? alleged at best.

heavily involved is an overreach according to fellow cave dweller, walter pincus:

"After he went public in 2003 about the trip, senior Bush administration officials, trying to discredit Wilson's findings, told reporters that Wilson's wife, who worked at the CIA, was the one who suggested the Niger mission for her husband. Days later, Plame was named as an "agency operative" by syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak, who has said he did not realize he was, in effect, exposing a covert officer. A Senate committee report would later say evidence indicated Plame suggested Wilson for the trip.

Over the past months, however, the CIA has maintained that Wilson was chosen for the trip by senior officials in the Directorate of Operations counterproliferation division (CPD) -- not by his wife -- largely because he had handled a similar agency inquiry in Niger in 1999. On that trip, Plame, who worked in that division, had suggested him because he was planning to go there, according to Wilson and the Senate committee report.

The 2002 mission grew out of a request by Vice President Cheney on Feb. 12 for more information about a Defense Intelligence Agency report he had received that day, according to a 2004 report of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. An aide to Cheney would later say he did not realize at the time that this request would generate such a trip.

Wilson maintains that his wife was asked that day by one of her bosses to write a memo about his credentials for the mission--after they had selected him. That memo apparently was included in a cable to officials in Africa seeking concurrence with the choice of Wilson, the Senate report said.

Valerie Wilson's other role, according to intelligence officials, was to tell Wilson he had been selected, and then to introduce him at a meeting at the CIA on Feb. 19, 2002, in which analysts from different agencies discussed the Niger trip. She told the Senate committee she left the session after her introduction."

ooops...here's a link to pincus' article: Link

"Well, if we want to be completely accurate we should say that the committee did not officially conclude that Plame suggested Wilson for the trip."

No, sorry, that isn't true. On page 39 of the report it says:

"The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region."

Davad, go back and read the report. It isn't second hand, they have the memo she sent to her superiors wherein she said:

"My husband has good relations with both the [prime minister of Niger] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity,"

It wasn't what someone heard her say, it was something she sent in a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations.

Do you find it coincidental that France, our opposition in building a consensus for the war, manages Niger's uranium business? Do you find it coincidental that anti-war nations were making billions with Sadaam in power, and stood to lose that the moment he was unseated? Do you think they were taking the high road, allowing millions to suffer under continual sanctions to protect their bottom line?

Do you find it coincidental that the moment Wilson became an activist, lying and twisting the truth to the press to harm the administration, he turned directly to the Kerry campaign who greeted him with open arms? Can you for one, single moment pretend that is all coincedental?

Of course not. Wilson wanted to go knowing exactly what he would find. Upon his return he didn't "debunk" a damn thing, as a matter of fact the intelligence report said he even helped bolster the idea of Iraqi attempts to buy uranium in the minds of some analysts. Then, he lies, says he concluded something totally different, and converted his scam into a new political activist career, even after he had been outed by the intelligence committee. It's really sad that people are still willing to entertain this sideshow.

I saw this on your response to another thread, and thought it was a very insightful look into the whole affair.  But as Valerie Plame was not covert, and indeed with children, unlikely to go undercover again in the future, I dont think either she nor Wilson thought much of any 'outing' until Wilson decided to make it political.

But still, it is an insightful look into what really is a non-scandal.  However, considering that Martha Stewart got nailed basically the same way as Libby is getting nailed, he should have known to make sure he told the truth, and if unsure, take a Clinton on it!