USA vs. Europe: Freedom vs. Fairness

A look at the philosophies behind two great cultures

Published on March 4, 2004 By Draginol In International

Blogs occasionally seem to have a Europe vs. United States mentality. I've seen it since the beginning of blogging. Why is that? Why is so much scorn reserved for Americans from Europeans? Why is such contempt shown for Europeans? I think I have the answer: Drastically different philosophies on life.

Europeans are focused on fairness. Americans are focused on freedom. Europeans look at Americans as a bunch of uncultured barbarians running amok in their country and worse, through the world spreading their vulgar culture around. Americans see Europeans as a bunch of sissies whose people meekly except regulations and massive taxation in an effort to make life more "fair" for everyone. The American response would typically be "Hey, life ain't fair!" to which the European might answer "But it should be!" And so it goes from there.

But because so many Europeans like individual Americans (and vice versa) the argument usually gets shifted to the "administrations" of the various countries. The typical American is a nice guy right? It's not his fault that the United States is full of gun toting, capital punishment supporting, SUV driving, CO2 producing zealots. What do you expect with Bush in charge? And "Old Europe" is a mess not because of the typical Belgian or German or Frenchman, it's cynical and corrupt politicians like Chirac or Schroeder that make it seem so crummy to us.

What both fail to realize that in a democracy, the people get what they want. Sometimes it takes awhile but eventually their cultures will get a government that represents them. Some people are aghast that the United States has capital punishment. But an overwhelming majority of Americans supports capital punishment. So we elect leaders who support it. Both Kerry and Bush support capital punishment. They have to. They wouldn't get elected otherwise. But why do Americans support capital punishment? Because we're a bunch of "Cowboys"? No. It's because we believe in having a great deal of freedom in our lives but we also believe that freedom comes with a price -- personal responsibility.

Great freedom requiring personal responsibility is one of the cornerstones of American culture. And it is a relatively foreign concept to Europeans (not personal responsibility but the relationship between the two). We pretty much allow people to do what they want here. You can own a gun with few exceptions. There are few regulations in being an entrepreneur. But at the same time, there are few regulations to keep a company from simply bombing on its own. People in the United States aren't taxed very much relatively speaking. They're free to make decisions on how they want to spend the money they earn. But on the other side of the coin, they also are free to make poor choices and end up in the gutter.

I don't mean this as a criticism of Europe but Europeans have never had the kinds of freedoms Americans have. Even today. It was, after all, a big reason why so many Europeans came to the United States in the first place. The US government is formed on the basis of the federal government essentially providing a handful of essential services. It's actually the weakest central government in the industrialized world in terms of its domestic power. But Europeans have not demanded the kinds of freedoms Americans want. A European might correctly point out that too much freedom leads to chaos and anarchy. And that Europeans have chosen to pull back a bit from the brink that Americans seem so readily to jump over in order to try to create a more just society.

Remember, the French revolution cry was not freedom or death as it was in the United States. It was split amongst 3 principles: liberty, equality, fraternity. Much of "old Europe" could be described in this way. The government exists to help make things more fair -- more equal. It's not fair for some people to be incredibly rich while others are incredibly poor. A European would look at the gap between the richest Americans and the poorest Americans as evidence that the American system isn't working. An American would look at the same evidence and point out that it is working as designed. The only concern Americans would have is if the rich got rich from cheating the system in some way. Americans, generally, do not envy the rich because they believe they have a shot at being one of them if they play their cards right. And even if they don't, odds are they'll end up doing pretty well.

The descendants of Europe who live in the United States have a significantly better standard of living than anywhere else in the world. And the American system works so well that descendents from Africa have the highest standard of living of any people with African heritage in the world -- despite having been slaves only a bit over a century ago. But there's a catch (isn't there always?) The poorest Americans live pretty darn poorly compared to people in similar situations in Europe. If life were an obstacle course where 90% of the people were able to compete it and 10% didn't, the 90% in the US are rewarded far more than the 90% in Europe. But at the same time, the 10% who can't do it suffer more in the US than they do in Europe. So which path do you take?

As an American, I've been instilled with its cultural values. So I prefer freedom to fairness. I have sympathy for those who haven't been able to make the cut in American society but I also don't want to see our freedoms further eroded in order to prop them up. I don't like the way things are in "old Europe". My views aren't shared by all Americans. But they are shared by most Americans. And vice versa in Europe. And the result of democracy in action (or representative government if you're anal retentive) is that the system is set up to reflect our values -- just like the French and Germans and Belgians and so on have governments that reflect theirs. And that's a good thing.

Comments (Page 2)

jelvis

on Mar 05, 2004

Interesting article. The only thing that I might object to is that Americans usually consider Europe as a unity. Europe is much less of a unity that the US and there are vast differences between the countries on the European continent. The northern countries are very different from the southern countries both regarding people and policies. Not to mention West Europe vs the old Eastern block countries.

But fairness vs freedom is an interesting idea and I agree that fairness is a common factor in Europe despite European countries being very dissimilar.

Javier

on Mar 05, 2004

The article is full of clichés and commonplace knowledge. Cliches and commonplace knowledge exist for a reason: They do have a common truth behind them, but also lots of exceptions.

Europeans are very diffeent between them, much more so than americans. And both americans and europeans are very much the same when compared with people from 50 years ago. Don't make differences bigger than they are. Americans are egalitarians too and europeans are libertarans too. Up to a point.

Wahkonta Anathema

on Mar 05, 2004

Rose-colored nonsense Brad.
"Balanced", "fair", "well-written" c'mon folks. The guy is trying to insight comments not be taken seriously. I see you bring the whole posse to hold your school books for you again Brad. And by descendants of Europeans too.

What are we supposed to say? "And so there it is, end of discussion, Brads said it all"?

Hey Europe! Can we get some replies here? Start by asking, "What is an American; and who the heck are you talking about?"

Europeans are focused on fairness. Americans are focused on freedom. Europeans look at Americans as a bunch of uncultured barbarians running amok in their country and worse, through the world spreading their vulgar culture around. Americans see Europeans as a bunch of sissies whose people meekly except regulations and massive taxation in an effort to make life more "fair" for everyone.

What both fail to realize that in a democracy, the people get what they want. Sometimes it takes awhile but eventually their cultures will get a government that represents them.

The US government is formed on the basis of the federal government essentially providing a handful of essential services.

There's got to be a European who can find an opening in this stuff, c'mon.

O G San

on Mar 05, 2004

OK, I suppose I'll stand up for the 12 stars. I agreed with some of Brad's article. Basically, yes, Europeans and Americans have very diffrent worldviews. Americans don't expect the govt to help them out which, I would concede, is a good thing. However the flipside of this is that the poor in America are left to rot in the inner cities. Americans would say "tough luck, if you worked hard like me then you could live in the suburbs too."

Europeans are very different. Our societies are more class-ridden and less mobile. Europeans would see poverty as the result of capitalism rather than laziness. I think Europeans of whatever political opinion are very influenced by Marxism. I dont mean that Europenas are commies, I mean that we view the world in Marxian class terms. We expect our govts to look after the poor, the old , the sick etc. This means more taxation but it also means a fairer more equal society. I wouldn't swap what we have for the American "sink-or-swim" mentality.

Where I think you err Brad is when you speak of Europe as if it were one. There are many Europes, as many others have pointed out. There are many other interesting differences, not least the difference in religious belief.

We are definitely drifting apart thanks to Dubya. After 9-11 everyone was on America's side, you might not believe that now but it's the truth. However Bush's arrogance has alienated most Europeans to the point where America is now hated. When New York's lights went out last year most of the people I spoke to were delighted. That's the depth of hatred. I don't hate America but I do hate what your govt is doing. Others dont make that distinction.

_Martin_

on Mar 05, 2004

I think this is a great article. The problem is that people too often try to look beyond generalisations which is not practical in the real world.

Europe is a big place and to most of us in Europe will lauch at a generalisation of "Europeans". The English and French for example have VERY different outlooks on life. The fact that our governments differ on issues such as Iraq (and are probably both equally corrupt, just in different ways) doesn't mean I dislike French people. In fact I love France.

That said, the comments that Brad makes are accurate as far as they can be and I think they should be left like that. Who care's "What an American is" Wahkonta Anathema, after all, "What is a European"? And as for your comments 4willy, "I believe a lot of the animosity you see in Europe and elsewhere is jealousy pure and simple.", are you sure the animosity was general and not direct? Don't take that as a direct attack, it's just an attempt to prove that generalisations are all that is possible. I don't have animosity, and I'm not jeaulous, maybe I'm just a generic "European"?

Jon

on Mar 05, 2004

Great article Brad. I am also one of those that usually shakes my head at your beliefs, but I definately give you a strong nod on this one.

However - in reply to O G San and anyone who wants a European defense -

When an American looks down at the homeless person on the street they think: "Good thing that isn't me, and thus it's not my problem."

When a European looks down at the homeless person on the street they think: "That could be me someday, and therefore I should help."

I know the world is not truly this black and white, so I guess it is just another cliched thought. But a thought nevertheless.

-Jon

Randy Spire

on Mar 05, 2004

Typical black and white thinking, This vs. That, US v Europe, Freedom v Fairness, Light v Dark etc. it's endless and serves no point, the Real world is not like that. Only good for stirring controversy, getting lots of hits, comments, points, and some ego-stroking. Once again, well done brad.

jeblackstar

on Mar 05, 2004

You say that like Brad is the only one who does it?

I refer to the article lambasting abortion and Gay rights.

Cheers

vernmeister2u

on Mar 05, 2004

Chalk me up the "Well written and insightful" side. And yes, it should be recognized as a piece about generalities, not absolutes, which is pretty much the only way you can speak on a grand scale.

messybuu

on Mar 05, 2004

I wouldn't call this article nonsense. There is definitely a difference in thinking between Europe and America. Awhile ago, somebody was talking about how America's form of government hasn't ever worked in other parts of the world (it always turns to dictatorships), as if America is some sort of anomaly, like Neo from the Matrix. I don't know enough about the world to verify that, but I'm sure somebody here does.

Draginol

on Mar 05, 2004

The US is the longest continuously running democracy that is of the class nation state. It is also the first nation state to be a democracy (i.e. have representative government). But it wasn't the first overall. Athens and other city states had democracies of various kinds and I think Luxemburgh has had a representative government for a very long time (But Lux is really just a glorified city state).

But what makes the US different -- so far -- is that people have not chosen to use the ballot box as a way to confiscate wealth from others on a grand scale -- yet.

jeblackstar

on Mar 05, 2004

Actually, what makes the US different is that people have not used the ballot box to subordinate the rights of the people.

I.E. Nazi germany, which elected Hitler into power, there are other examples, but y'know.

Cheers

Draginol

on Mar 05, 2004

Hitler's rise to power couldn't be mirrored in the United States. Not the easily anyway. First, the executive branch of the United States has no legislation authority. All office holders swear to uphold the constitution, not the will of some leader. Secondly, our executive branch is relatively weak. Presidents can't make laws. They can't agree to treaties (I mean they can sign whatever they want but it's meaningless), they have no power of the purse, and they are directly elected by the people.

In other countries, leaders come from the legislature. People don't vote for Tony Blair, for instance, they vote for his political party (Labor party) who in turn choose him to be the first minister (technically the queen is still the official leader).

What makes the US relatively different is how small our federal government is in terms of domestic power. People are expected to fend for themselves here (whether good or bad depends on who you talk to). Whereas in other countries the culture is for the government to try to help make sure everyone is taken care of.

I think a lot of that has to do with geography. I mean, hell, we have states larger than France or Germany. When you're that small with such high concentrations of population and much less cultural variations within a given country, you can more readily do one-size fits all policies.

Dynosoar

on Mar 06, 2004

The words I always seem to have come to mind in arguments such as this are " ...and the pursuit of happiness.."
Nowhere in our constitution is their any guarantees of happiness, just the guarantee of our right to pursue that happiness. Therein lies the overwhelming difference pointed out in your article.
Simple words, painstakingly choosen by an ethicist and a diplomat ( Jefferson and Franklin respectively ) who were led in no small way by the philosophy of " The Greater Good ", in short the belief that in what is good for the most is best for all( and if a few tend to suffer, oh well )
We could bring this whole debate down to who influenced who in the defining moments of each continent.
Franklin and Jefferson were avid followers of John Locke ( 1632-1704), as well as Immanuel Kant ( 1724-1804 ) whereas European elitist ( read royalty ) were more apt to act in a manner following the philosophy of Thomas Hobbes( 1588-1679 ) and
Thomas Aquinas.
Europe was founded on the basis of serfdom and lord, whereas The United States were founded on the fleeing of that feudal system ( and it's state sponsored church ). as time has marched on, Europe has bypassed the teachings of Locke and Kant, and subscribed to a more utilitarian view as reflected by the thoughts of Jeremy Bentham( 1748-1832 )and John Mills ( 1806-1873 ) throw in a little Marxism as well as a bow to outward displays of Anti-Nazism ( dirty EU secret thought- 'Hitler was right, he just got greedy "quote from my Lithuanian born, 80 yr old mum in law ) and there you have the stereotypical European political view of the world .

nazgul

on Mar 07, 2004

Phillip Worts shows how Communist strategies have been revived, redefined and are now being used to control the American people...

There is a myth that communism is dead and that the cold war is over. Nothing could be further from the truth. The problem is that few people today understand what communism really is and just where the cold war battle lines are actually drawn. Crack open a dictionary and look up the term "Dialectical Materialism." You should find something like this:

"A philosophy founded by Karl Marx which forms the basis of Communist doctrine: it combines the materialistic idea of matter over mind with the Hegelian dialectic in which opposing forces are constantly being reunited at a higher level." -- Lexicon Webster Dictionary

But that definition might beg the question, "What is the Hegelian dialectic?" For modern man, the answer to that question is epic. The Hegelian dialectic has profoundly impacted the world in which you live.

Communist Oriented Policing

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!