Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 23)
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on Dec 02, 2004
thanks joe i got quote from contractor . which was way to high so sent packing they cALLED FEW WEEKS LATER SALESMAN AFTER RETUNING TO MY HOME AGREED TO PRICE I THOUGH WHAT I COULD AFFORD THEN HAD TO CALL BOSS WHO RAISED PRICE

IF ONLY WOULD GIVE REAL PRICE FIRST TIME THEY WOULD DO MORE BUSSINESS

STILL LOOKUNG FOR A GOOD HONEST Bsement contractor
on Dec 02, 2004
The Bear: one of the most ignorant and uniformed statements I have read on this sight! Mold a hype!!! Read!!! Go on the web and check basement and toxic mold, check with the CDC, my goodness the information is so overwelming. Funny how we try to justify not believeing the facts when it does not fit our pocketbook!
on Dec 02, 2004
Tom T:

Can you post SPECIFIC links to the CDC, or any other site for that matter, that tells us EXACTLY what the MOLD scare is in the basement? You can't , can you?

PLEASE, do NOT tell us to (whiny voice) "Go to the CDC site and check out Toxic Mold" - give us SPECIFIC links and show us it really isn't hype!

If you are able to do this I may just go and hire a contractor to remove my basement stairs. After all, they are made of, uh, hmmmm - WOOOD! Yikes! Oooooh, I am so scared! Shiver, Shiver

Umu U
on Dec 02, 2004
Tom T: Take a breath and get a grip; the sky is not falling!
I know toxic mold exists and in rare cases can be a huge problem. However wood has been in use for many years in basements. People aren't dropping like flies because of it! There are many warnings of toxins also coming from you carpet, your water, your plastic emissions, mad cow, salmonella, burning leaves, toothpaste, cow flatulence and we are even told we may all die when an unseen asteroid hits us.
Anyway I'm betting cow flatulence will destroy the world before black mold will.

I never metioned not buying, or that the product is to pricey, you just assumed this. The basic problem is that most people in these posts would pay a premiem for the product but hate the heavy handed sales methods and unneeded scare tactics. You expected us to shell out any amount of money to keep us safe from this monster that only Owens Corning will save us from. I feel sorry for you that you must deal with such ignorant people who dare ask if this product provides enough of a benefit to justify its additional cost.



on Dec 03, 2004
Sorry guys I must agree with tom! Toxic mold and the materials on a basements wall just do not mix. Umu U you are just an idiot. Your statement tells how uniformed you are. We are talking about your basement walls not stairs or joists! Just type in Center for Disease and control, in Atlanta!!!!! They are pretty popular. What is so heavy handed about making someone who is obviosly unaware aware. Then asking for a order! Your humor is ill lacking, type in toxic mold and watch the hits come in. Go to google and ask for and e-mail alert. (google will send you an e-mail and link anytime your request comes up. Request Basement toxic mold. Watch how you are swamped with articles from all over the country. Then make you cute statements again! Price has nothing to do with something that you must have. If you believe you need it and you want it you will buy it. Otherwise you will justify it with comments such as the above.
on Dec 03, 2004
Well, I also had a saleman come out to my house the other night. I was very upset with the way he conduct hisself. After 4 hours at my house, the phony call to his boss to try to get us a lower price, he couldn't find things, got upset when we asked him questions about the product, then when we said that we wanted more time to think about it he got pissed and said this is only a one time deal we wont' be able to get it again, so how cares when you are talking about this kind of money you want time to think about it. Then the black mold stuff he was really trying to scare the pants off me since I was a women and mother, yes I do know about the black mold but what about the fiberglass from the panels they are trying to sell. Breathing fiberglass is just as bad on kids and the respiratory track. As everyone knows that kids will hit the walls and cause the break down of the particles. I just think that they need to change their sales pitch and not presure customers into on the same night the salesman desides to come and spend the night with them.
on Dec 03, 2004
Well, I also had a saleman come out to my house the other night. I was very upset with the way he conduct hisself. After 4 hours at my house, the phony call to his boss to try to get us a lower price, he couldn't find things, got upset when we asked him questions about the product, then when we said that we wanted more time to think about it he got pissed and said this is only a one time deal we wont' be able to get it again, so how cares when you are talking about this kind of money you want time to think about it. Then the black mold stuff he was really trying to scare the pants off me since I was a women and mother, yes I do know about the black mold but what about the fiberglass from the panels they are trying to sell. Breathing fiberglass is just as bad on kids and the respiratory track. As everyone knows that kids will hit the walls and cause the break down of the particles. I just think that they need to change their sales pitch and not presure customers into on the same night the salesman desides to come and spend the night with them.
on Dec 03, 2004
Stanley K,

Just give me 1 definitive link, just 1 about basements and mold. If there are so many to choose from, you go to google, pick one and post it here. I'll wait.................... We can then dicsuss it more.

Jeopardy tune starts playing.......

Umu U
on Dec 03, 2004
Stanley K,

My basement stairs are aginst the wall in the front of the house. They are not located in the center of the house like a traditional colonial.

Umu U
on Dec 03, 2004
Stanley K: I don't think you can find a link to back up the basement "Toxic Mold" Can you?

Hows this for information from the CDC? Why don't you take ti along with your sales presentations?

From www.cdc.gov/nceh/airpollution/mold/stachy.htm#Q1

Q 1. I heard about "toxic molds" that grow in homes and other buildings. Should I be concerned about a serious health risk to me and my family?

A 1. The term "toxic mold" is not accurate. While certain molds are toxigenic, meaning they can produce toxins (specifically mycotoxins), the molds themselves are not toxic, or poisonous. Hazards presented by molds that may produce mycotoxins should be considered the same as other common molds which can grow in your house. There is always a little mold everywhere - in the air and on many surfaces. There are very few reports that toxigenic molds found inside homes can cause unique or rare health conditions such as pulmonary hemorrhage or memory loss. These case reports are rare, and a causal link between the presence of the toxigenic mold and these conditions has not been proven. A common-sense approach should be used for any mold contamination existing inside buildings and homes. The common health concerns from molds include hay fever-like allergic symptoms. Certain individuals with chronic respiratory disease (chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder, asthma) may experience difficulty breathing. Individuals with immune suppression may be at increased risk for infection from molds. If you or your family members have these conditions, a qualified medical clinician should be consulted for diagnosis and treatment. For the most part, one should take routine measures to prevent mold growth in the home.

Q 10. What are the potential health effects of mold in buildings and homes?

A 10. Mold exposure does not always present a health problem indoors. However some people are sensitive to molds. These people may experience symptoms such as nasal stuffiness, eye irritation, wheezing, or skin irritation when exposed to molds. Some people may have more severe reactions to molds. Severe reactions may occur among workers exposed to large amounts of molds in occupational settings, such as farmers working around moldy hay. Severe reactions may include fever and shortness of breath. Immunocompromised persons and persons with chronic lung diseases like COPD are at increased risk for opportunistic infections and may develop mold infections in their lungs.


Not very convincing!
on Dec 03, 2004
Wouldn't the government forbid new construction of basements with drywall if mold were such the danger OC wants us to think. They no longer allow asbestos, or lead paint?
I have never read so many people wanting to buy a product but so upset at the sales approach. I think OC needs to rethink their sales strategy. Normally you hear about some bad experences with any company, but OC seem to require their sales people to follow this script.
on Dec 04, 2004
Tom T, Stanley K - I am still waiting for you guys to post a direct link on Mold and the basement, particularly drywalled basements. Just 1 good link, please! You seem to have been pretty quiet lately.

After listening to you guys and then going to the CDC website (see post above) and reading their info on Mold (Your recomendation, remember) I now worry about the threat of "Toxic Mold" in the basement about as much as I worry about the threat of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

I am now more likely than before to install drywall in the basement. What a bunch of hype you guys are pushing. Hey if it sells, why not, right?

Lets see, I need some pressure treated lumber for the floors....

Umu U
on Dec 04, 2004
to Boston Area:

I just had Owens quote my basement and was impressed with the product but disappointed in the final price offered. The best offer on the table (after 3 visits to the house, 2 hrs, 1 hr and 3hrs, a $2000 coupon, manager incentive, and $2000 initially so we could be a reference) was over $60/sqft! The sales managers price (3rd visit) was actually higher than the salesman because he had "left details out".

Will you please add more details as to the office used (our sales person, and sales manager were out of Canton), size and full amount quoted for the basement, I cannot understand how the pricing can vary so much.

Anyone: Is it best to wait these guys out for a better price? Their first visit was in October!

Thanks
on Dec 05, 2004
The priceing varies so much here because most of the post are lies. Most of these posts are from competitors or from bitter people who could not afford. Please, how can you trust ANYTHING on an open forum were people are anonymous?? I work for OC and by the time everything is done if you can get 32.00 to 41.00 you are doing great. You can wait but it will not be lower. That is a square foot for everthing except carpet and egress. good luck
on Dec 05, 2004
Did anyone in Boston have an OC rep out to their home who was on the younger side. The rep that came to my house was in his mid twenties and was a pleasure to work with. He was honest, straight forward and did not pressure us to buy that night. He told us both the pros and the cons to putting the system in and gave us suggestions for how to keep the design "cost effective". He is young, so maybe he has not yet become a hardened slick sales rep. I am not sure if I am going to purchase the system anytime soon, but the sales experience was fine.
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