Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 22)
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on Nov 27, 2004
Has anyone tried to buy this product in the Chicago land area? We had the reps come out last week and they provided us a quote that started at $60.00 a sq. foot. By the time they had discounted the product, we were at $41.00 a sq. foot. I just wanted information on the system. I do believe the product is excellent but it is very expensive for what you get. The quote included an area of 600 sq. ft., with the ceiling and the electrical. NO carpet installed. Since last week I have had 2 estimtes from contractors for conventional dry wall. For the same installation, (drop down, frame, drywall, and electrical)...it came to around $13000.00. The OC reps told us that it would be between 5 to 15 percent higher then a contractors price. That would be about $15000.00 for the product at the 15 percent mark up.

I understand that this company needs to make money. I have a tough time with how they go about it. I think one of the largest marketing factors for the OC product is word of mouth from existing customers. 2 of my neighbors asked me my thoughts on the product the next day. I told them it was over priced, and for some, the reps for OC could be accused of being insulting. I believe the Chicago area is new for OC, and that they would want to try and get as many people in the door as possible. Not sure if their current approach will do it.

A soft sell approach to this product would triple OC's sales on this product, I am sure of it!
on Nov 27, 2004
Again, you cannot put drywall in your basement. Of course it is more!! Just go back through the listings here and you will find out both sides. Very exclusive, not for everybody. But look at the CDC website or EPA or the Dept. of Energy Office of Building tech. our the thousands of articles on drywall or whatever in your basement. 13000.00 will be the most costly mistake you ever made!
on Nov 29, 2004
For those looking for carpet for their finished basement, get on line to Dalton, Georgia. You can save 50% or more on the purchase, no tax and low shipping cost.
on Nov 29, 2004
Hi Everyone,

I had an appointment to meet with an OC guy Wednsday night. After I hung up the phone I searched the Internet and found this site.

I called the guy back and said my wife had to go out of town and that I would like to reschedule for Thursday. Then the fun began

Long story short - I do not have an appointment to meet with these guys Every once in awhile when I am really bored, I like to Eff with the High Pressure sales guys but not this week.

I do extensive research on just about everything that I buy and if the product is as good as they say it is, there is a very good chance that I would have probably purchased it.

Glad I found this site.

Thanks,
Jim

on Nov 30, 2004
Jimmy K: Right, just another loser with a forum to confirm your ignorance. Is it any wonder why salespeople do not trust customers, just like customers do not trust salesman. Go ahead and "eff" with the salesman. He is only trying to feed his family! Maybe someday someone will return the favor to you and you won't get a paycheck! When a sales person scheduled you for a slot that you had no intention a keeping, he could have been seeing someone with a brain who actually was interested. Just another pompous ass that thinks he knows everything. Big man, Merry Effing Christmas
on Nov 30, 2004
Merry Christmas to you too Stanley K
on Nov 30, 2004
BTW Stanley, what is your "profession"?
on Nov 30, 2004
Just to clarify for all you sales guys, I am only referring to eff'ing with the High Pressure Sales guys that come to me and don't have BOTH of our interests in mind. (I have mouths to feed too you know ) The ones like the guy referred to above that wouldn’t leave the persons house when asked to leave. The ones that if you do buy something from them, you have a sinking feeling in your stomach when they leave the house. You should feel good, excited, and happy with your purchase – not bullied into spending way too much for something that you are just seeing for the first time.

How many of you have sat through a timeshare presentation?

I also agree with the other guy above that OC is losing potential customers (customers that are “informed” and “smart” with their money) because people aren’t willing to put up with that kind of treatment.

It would be great if OC sold their product at Home Depot or Lowes.

I can have 5 different companies come to my house and they are more than happy to give me an estimate straight up and give me references of other customers so that I can go and check out their work before I commit to anything.

If the OC Product is that damn good, I would think that it would sell itself!

There is one company in particular that will work with you to finish the basement, you can do as much or as little as you want, and they will provide guidance along the way so you don’t mess anything up too badly (as they will probably be the ones that have to fix it) Anything that you are uncomfortable doing youself, they will help with. You get to spend as much of your Time OR Money and there are a number of people in my neighborhood that are very satisfied with these guys.

There was a reference above to “Researching the product before the Sales Rep Comes over” – Besides the reading the OC website, where can I see the product in person? Is there a showroom somewhere? Can I get a sample of the product? The vibe I am getting from this forum is that even the sales guys don’t want to leave literature if your wife isn’t home?!?!?!?

Yeah I guess I am an idiot for trying to research a product BEFORE meeting with the SALES guy. In my research, other than the OC Web Site and this forum, I haven’t come across much information about the product.

And BTW, I didn’t waste any Sales persons time. My Appointment was made last night and I cancelled it about an hour later. Now I have MY 3 to 4 hours back.

Bottom Line, If the product is as good as they say it is, and after I have done my homework, I wouldn’t mind meeting with a reasonable sales rep.

How about this - Has anyone dealt with a decent sales guy for the OC product from the Washington DC Area?
on Nov 30, 2004
Terri -

which vendor in Dalton, GA has good prices? Dalton seems to be a carpet manufacuring center with numerous vendors.
on Nov 30, 2004
Jimmy: You van shop all you want. The OC product is exclusive. All reps are reasonable. What upsets people in this forum is that the sales person askes for the order the first night out and gives an incentive to do so. It is exclusive, you cannot and should not put drywall and wood in your basement. So, shopping is moot! You are not comparing apples to apples. You cannot find much info because that is why a representitive comes out. That is why it is a three hour presentation, that is why all partys must be there. Three hours to protect your family and the value of your house with the right info. What a bargain. No product sells itself. The companys you have coming over to give you an estimate are not selling a product.(they go to the same lumber yard that you can go to to get thier materials) Oc is no sub-contractors, Great Wnty, labor gnty. Go to the CDC website see what they say about wood in a basement or drywall. Ask all your companys if what they put in is moisture proof, fire rate class I, sound proof .95, and will not support mold. If they can buy it. The Oc product is much more. But you know what, if the other guys product causes mold(and it does) and if the other guys product is destoyed by water and moisture (and it is) if it is a fire hazard(and it is) and it causes your home to loose value and possible harm to your family!!!! Than it should be pretty cheep!!! Good luck, I am sure someone of your research prowess will get exactly what he deserves. Merry Christmas.
on Dec 01, 2004
Hey Stanley K,

Help me out here. I went to www.cdc.gov and searched for articels on wood in the basement, mold in the basement, drywall in the basement, etc. but I wasn't able to come up with any specific information regarding these combined topics.

Can you post a link to the CDC website that has the information about wood and drywall in the basement?

Seriously, I am not trying to get in a pissing battle with you, I really would like to find out more information and I think that any links that you can post would be helpful. Any other links to other websites would be helpful as well.

Thanks,
Jimmy K
on Dec 01, 2004
They have a whole section on toxic mold, go there and you will find what materials you should and should not use. Goto Dept. of Energy, Office of Building technologies and look for basement studies.
Good luck S
on Dec 01, 2004
We just had the OC Sales person to our home last night and we we're very suprised by his professionalism and honesty after reading all the negative comments posted on this site.

No pressure to sign immediately, no haggling over price just direct and to the point. The OC Rep showed us the product, let us review the literature and then went right to work on laying out the best design for US! The product is a bit pricey, but I supose you get what you pay for in terms of quality and durability. Our quote came in around $38/sq.ft.

My suggestion to anyone interested in this product is be prepared ahead of time so your in control during the sales process, it helps to have your kids running around the house as well.

We have not made a commitment, but we are leaning towards the OC system.
on Dec 01, 2004
Has anyone in the Massachusetts (Worcester area) done a OC basement with New England Sash? I just received a quote in the low $30's and would like to know if any one has had experience (positive or negative) with this contractor.

thanks much!
on Dec 02, 2004
I also had an OC sales person to our house last night and he was professional in his manner most of the evening. I had no prior knowledge of OC’s products and received a mailer that I had responded to. I also went through the typical sales grind that is explained throughout these postings. His professionalism changed somewhat when he could not get us to commit to a contract that evening. The 6k of savings available only that night I thought was actually funny, as I couldn't believe this type of sale techniques still existed in large companies. While I never got upset by the lengthy presentation and sales pitch, I did find it odd that the sales call would be so extensive when I made it clear that I was just looking into what options were out there for finishing basements.

I liked their products but there was one question I never got a clear response to. The ceiling tiles looked to me to be a pressed board as other tiles are, but these are chemically treated against mold and mildew formation. I wondered why they didn’t create a drywall product that either treated the paper with the same chemically treated process or with a plastic based design. Some of the mold problems we were also shown were on the basement walls themselves. Apparently other items can create mold other then just wood and paper. I also wonder how many molds are formed from the leakage of air around the wood base my house sits upon. My understanding is that a lot of moist air is exchanged in this area and installation is stuffed there to help prevent this

A bathroom is part of our plans but OC didn’t have anything to offer for this. This I also found surprising, as we had to construct plans ignoring that a bathroom was to be installed behind a wall as this was an important part of the basement finishing for me. Anyway I haven’t ruled out the OC system but may only use them for outside walls only. The concern over the mold scare to me is mostly hype at this time. Until finished basements become a liability rather then an asset to a home's value. I’ll worry more about Radon at this time. Now I need to find out if the porous properties of the OC system may increase the amount of radon present in a basement.
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