Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 21)
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on Nov 22, 2004
My salesman clarified the warranty. While the wall panels have a lifetime transferrable warranty, they only have a 15-year guarantee against mold. So, in year 16 if a panel gets damaged by mold, OC won't replace it. Otherwise, your covered.
on Nov 22, 2004
The panels cannot get damaged by mold, that is the hole point! They do not support mold growth, mold only grows on organic substances like cellulose, food, drywall, wood,paneling etc. That is why metal studing and polyester and polycarbonate materials are use with OC.
on Nov 22, 2004
I'm in the Michigan market and am currently getting the installation done. I've noticed that on the interior walls, they're only using 1 5/8" studs. My expectation was that they would be using 4" studs. The other factor is that our basement ceiling is over 9 ft high, and their studs were ore-cut to 8 ft and so they doubled them up, but only one mounts to the rail on the floor and the other mounts to the rail on the ceiling. Overall a pretty flimsy looking system.

Has anyone else had a similar configuration in their basements? Looking at the Bob Vila video footage, they show standard 4 inch metal studs being used (and doubled up).
on Nov 23, 2004
They are not 4 inch on the video the stud are made for this product. But the studs should be doubled up back to back, then they are pretty sturdy, that is company policy.
on Nov 23, 2004
Thanks for the response Stanley. The the main concern I have is that not having them doubled up from top to bottom the full 9-10 ft. 2 of these interior walls will be for a bathroom, and this current stud configuration has a lot of flex. Is there any cross bracing put between the studs to stop them twisting as much? For finishing the bathroom, I see the challenge being trying to screw into the stud flanges to mount the wall paneling and having them flex under the force. Once you have a panel across several studs, it will be sturdy but still not as rigid as what you would get with regular deptth studs (steel or wooden).

One other thing I'm curious about is if anyone has done mounting of large/heavy objects onto the interior walls. Through the Owens Corning wall system you can obviously make holes to mount onto the frame, but have many people tried doing this? Is there a load rating on the 1 5/8" studs?
on Nov 23, 2004
Stanley -- I agree the materials used in the OC wall panels do not promote mold growth; that is standard materials science. However, to cover themselves legally, OC states in all their materials that the panels are "mold resistant", not "mold proof". I'm not concerned about the panels getting moldy, I just wanted to clarify the different aspects of the OC warranty.

David -- I'm in the SE Michican market and will have interior walls installed around a bathroom too. My installation should start in mid-December. I'll post my experience on this site.
on Nov 23, 2004
David, if you are going to hang something more than 20lbs. (OC has special hangers that go onto the wall for 20lbs or less) than you can asked them to put a metal stud in the place where the heavy piece would go.. We have a special groove tool that allows us to groove the back of the wall and insert a stud. That can also be done at a later date because the walls can be removed.

Request them to use studs plus the polycarbonate in the areas that are determined weak!
on Nov 23, 2004
We had OC out last night and overall I liked the salesman, although he used all the standard sales techniques. My wife and I did a lot of eye rolling and got a few chuckles out of the phone calls to the boss. I was not upset as to how long it took - why would I want to base the decision on an investment of that level on a 30 minute walk through (although I did miss the beginning of the Pats/Chiefs game. We were impressed with the product and did wound up signing on.
We wanted to have our stairs down to the basement reconfigured (currently L shaped) to a straight shot stairway. I am sure that the expense of this work upped the price considerably. Frankly we were excited that they were willing to do it at all, we feared that they would want the stair work done first by another contractor.
We will be having 2 rooms done: a playroom and a family room plus framing done for a laundry room/future bathroom. A total of 550-600 sq ft and although it was more than we were hoping for the one and done aspect of them doing all the work made it a bit easier to swallow.
Has not been 100% positive and had a bit of buyers remorse when I first found this site, but over all I have overcome that and am rather pleased with the prospect of a GREAT basement.
Install is scheduled for the end of January, but we were told that might get moved up (fine with us). Will be great to get all the toys and big screen TV out of the main living room (although I bet that the basement will become our "main living room".
Read everything here and at other sites with a grain of salt, make the decision that works for you.
on Nov 24, 2004
Thanks for the information Stanley. I'll follow up with our installer once he gets back to me.

To give feedback to those who still haven't chosen the system, the two things I didn't really expect was that all exterior walls don't get framed (although it is mentioned in the Bob Vila promo) and that the interior wall frames were only 1 5/8" thick. This limits options for HVAC and outlets.

While the salesmen assured me that the installers would bring the HVAC down, I was talking about to the bottom of the walls. Now that they've starting framing, I have come to understand that there is no option for getting ducting down to bottom of the walls (as there isn't a 3 1/2" cavity behind the panels). What they do is take any existing vents in the basement, use the flexbile insulated ducting and connect it to a ceiling tile with a circular fitting that can be opened or closed. This is a solution, but not the best one for heating a basement.

The other issue to keep in mind with the narrow frames is that if you decide to finish off one side without the Owens panels (as it is in the case of a bathroom or workshop), then any outlet you want needs a low profile box. The only alternative I see to this is doing another lot of studs at the same depth or thicker, to give you the required wall thickness.

Perhaps an option the Franchises should look into is a mix of the 1 5/8" studs where you have panels on both sides of the frame and then the regular 3 1/2" depth metal studs for where the wall will have H VAC, some other finishing solution or maybe for areas where the customers want to mount cabinets like in a kichinete or bar area.

Our basement is meant to be completed in the next week or so. I will provide more feedback as work progresses.
on Nov 24, 2004
The work on our basement started about 2 weeks after delivery. was proceeding well
then someone in the chain of people quit, no electrican to be had, no further work done, we are at a standstill. The carpenter was excellent but cannot go further without electrical work done. So far it has been about 2 months since ordered. Getting a little frustrated.
on Nov 24, 2004
The work on our basement started about 2 weeks after delivery. was proceeding well
then someone in the chain of people quit, no electrican to be had, no further work done, we are at a standstill. The carpenter was excellent but cannot go further without electrical work done. So far it has been about 2 months since ordered. Getting a little frustrated.
on Nov 24, 2004
Liz, what area are you from? In all business things happen that are unforseen, and because all the work must be certified, getting it done means it has to be done right and with the right people, before we hire just anyone, background checks and many references must be checked, this takes a little time. remember we do not get paid until we are finished! I am sure it will get finished soon.
on Nov 24, 2004
Our sales person dropped off a detailed sketch last night and when we were looking it we were scratching our heads!

Not quite what we had discussed. - We called him and faxed him a letter with our concerns and although had not firm answers for us indicated that we should be able to work things out. He is coming over Friday to go back over the plans and chalk out the floor.

Assured us that if we really were not all on the same page and it does not work will bring our deposit check with him and hand it back to us.

Hope it works out! Really looking forward to the rooms.
on Nov 24, 2004
One of the downsides to the high pressure sales approach (for the homeowner at least) is that unless you have done you're homework prior to the meeting, you are at a disadvantage in not getting all of the things you need into the contract. Things like phone/cable outlets, other electrical wiring, seeing what the warranty really covers. What you sign for then is what you're going to get in general unless to pay extra. So you really need to make sure that everything you want in all its glory is written in the contract. For example, we found after we signed the initial agreement that the installers do not do any duct work if there are no existing vents. Hence only if the basement is already prepped for vents will they take them into the drop ceiling. Similarly, we found that by default only 2 phone and 2 cable outlets are covered. If we'd known that up front, we would have put in for one more set.
on Nov 24, 2004
David: Your contract should say what you are getting Ex. (2( two phone jacks, (1) one cable jack, (2) two heat vents from existing vents and two new vents and ductwork Etc. Never assume anything unless it is on the agreement
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