Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 19)
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on Nov 08, 2004
To Vic: I work for OC and you will not get the room, walls, ceiling, wire, and lighting for 10-15 a sq. foot. You are either dreaming or fibbing.
on Nov 08, 2004
I had an OC rep come to my house with the high pressure "buy today for less" tactic. We put down a deposit of over $4000 that night. The next day I found this site. I got cold feet and canceled in the alloted time. It has been 25 days since they recieved my cancelation. I sent it certified mail with return recipt requested. According to the contract I was supposed to have my money back in 10 days. Not 10 business days. I'm still waiting. I've called the Winchester, VA office serveral times and gotten the "checks in the mail" response. I am completely disgusted with this company. Has anyone else had this kind of a problem getting money back? I've emailed their Richmond,VA office and threatened to contact the BBB. I'm giving them until noon tomorrow to respond then I will make good on my threat.
on Nov 08, 2004
Hey Ken your right, am not paying any amount for for R11 insulation with a piece
of fabric held by plastic moldings!!!!!!!!!!
on Nov 08, 2004
Any one know what year this product was on the market, and if it had been selling at
Homedepot or Lowes, Walmart?
on Nov 09, 2004
Janine, you cancelled an order because of the crap you read on this website!!! You are an idiot...to make an uniformed decision based on hearsay is stupid...There are some great sites like blackbox and area 51 to tell you ufos are real to!!! Most of these posts are from former disgruntled workers or competitors. Nice move..Your disgusted because of what..you entered into an agreement then you backed out and the only reason because of an unverified website, I am sure they feel the same about you. I am sure your money will be returned forthwith.
on Nov 09, 2004
Janine, you did the right thing, this is a great web site. Ken is just worried about
this product going out to the free market. The product is truly worth about $10 to
$15 a sq.ft. I had an OC salesman come out to my place, it was the first time someone
attempted to rob me without a gun or mask ( I lived in NYC before ),
I guess you might call it a sort of white collar crime, not in the present Law.
After 3 hrs, My OC guy gave me an intinial quote of $85sq.ft, then 15% and 10%.
He said," this is Fairfield Ct. not Arkansas"! This product is a Cadillac, thats what your paying
for not a Chevy. I then asked him were there any other discounts, he paused and said,
does your beautiful wife perform lab dances. That infuriated my wife who turned red face
and ran to the study to get my minor league homerun bat off the trophy wall, I yelled to
her not that bat the one I left by the front door. At that point he grabbed his showcase presentation
and ran to his car and sped off never looking back. He did leave me a quote but forgot his binder.
on Nov 09, 2004
By the way I forgot the quote didnot include a bathroom and carpeting!
on Nov 10, 2004
Ken your an obnoxious jerk(I guess you fit right in at OC). You only know a very small part of my story. Calling someone an idiot based on a few lines in a post is, to use your word, stupid!!! I actually did quite a bit of research including reading this site. I just didn't want to get into it all. I only wanted to do about 410 sq ft of my basement. I got the same lines that everyone here got. After all of the phony discounts my total was around $13,000. Not including flooring or the ceiling I know from reading this site that it wasn't an awful price compared to most. What botheres me the most is the companys disreputable sales tactics.
I was told that this addition would boost my homes value by $21,000. That sounded a bit high. First I called three local real estate agents. One of them actually laughed at me when I told her the amount. The other two were in agreement with the first. They both said that in this area I was lucky if I would make back what I paid for OC. When I told my sales rep of this he said that realators were unreliable for this kind of information. He asked If I had called an appraiser. At that point I had not, but I did as soon as I got off with the sales rep. I called two local apraisers. They both agreed with the realators. I called my sales rep back at this point to tell him of my findings. He told me that OC got their resale value from research done by Better Homes and Gardens. Well I was willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. I contacted BH&G. They told me they have never done research with OC. At this point you can guess I was ready to pull out of the contract. My sales rep then tried to give me the,"Bob Vila likes it" speach. I almost laughed. Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Bob Vila get kicked off This Old House because he didn't know what he was doing?
Well I have gotten an email back from the Richmond office. I was told that my check will be in the mail on Friday Nov. 12th. The funny thing is that when called the Winchester office two weeks ago I was that the check would be in the mail on Friday Oct. 29th. If my check isn't in my hand by Tue. I will call the BBB. I know that the Winchester office has already had a complaint on it recently. HMMM I wonder why.
I don't have a problem with the product. I think it sounds like a good idea if you have a moisture problem. The price wasn't even that big a turn off. What made me back out of the contract was the lying. I expect salespeople to embelish to put a better spin on their product. I despise lying. In keeping with everyone's car analogies I wouldn't buy a RR if the person selling it told me it was a Bently of equal value. Both fabulous and expensive cars but a lie is still a lie.
I wonder why, if OC is such a fabulous company, did they claim bankrupcy? It sounds like they'll say just about anything to make a sale. Maybe my experience is unique. I just somehow doubt it.
Whether my check is "forthwith" or not is irrelivent. I was supposed to have my money back over two weeks ago. I'm pretty sure that OC would be annoyed if my payment to them was going to be almost a month late. I'm sure they would be charging intrest too.
My whole experience up to this point confirms that I was right to back out of a contract with this dishonest company.
After all of this I wasn't sure if I really wanted to finish the basement at all. I decided to call my local home inspector. I explained to him the OC sales pitch about mold. He told me that if I don't have a problem with moisture now I am unlikley to develop one no matter what I finish my basement with. He suggested that I tape completly on all four sides a two foot square piece of plastic in several different testing areas. Leave it there for several days. If no moisture builds up you don't have a problem. I have done the test on my walls and the floor. I am confident that I do not have a problem with moisture. I will be going ahead with drywall.
on Nov 10, 2004
Funny how you omitted that from your first post!!

Product will,not be on open market. Keep bitchin though, The OC will top 250 million in installed business in 2004!! You are bound to have a few idiots out there who are too stupid, cheap or poor to buy this product if they are serious about thier basement. Knock yourself out and put drywall in, you deserve it. All basements have moisture, stupid! That is why they are basements. You should have asked to see the article from better homes and gardens. At this point the only thing you are good at is telling lies. Keep on going. This is living space especially with the Eggres. It counts as living space. That is what the codes say!!!! Again a smart person would realize this. So would an good real estate person! When they are aware of the OC product they change their mind. Your bankruptcy statement is uneducated and uniformed and has nothing to do with the basement system. It HAD to do with the asbestos claims from years ago and OC is out of bankruptcy!! OC learned many lessons about products and their health relationships with thier asbestos dealings. That is why the research that has been done with this product has been extensive. Don't believe it ...fine. Tell that to the CDC or the EPA or thousands of people who have mold problems and will because of ignorant people like yourself. You bitch, bitch, bitch because you couldn't or didn't get your way. I do not think you are a customer, the office in that area has no record of this type of problem. If you are, call OC personally and make your false accusations about phony literature and false discounts. That would actually help you instead of the bullshit that is listed here! This is a nice forum even the nicest business people can let out their frustrations here. We will see if your call comes into OC.
on Nov 10, 2004
My first post was intented only to comment on the difficulty I was having getting my deposit back. Since I came under attack I decided I had to clarify my reasoning.

I assure you I am a customer. I encourage you to call the Winchester office yourself if you feel the need(540-450-3232,Sales Manager Steve Reese). My husband and I signed the contract on Oct. 11. That should be enough information for you to confirm it.

I didn't say what the BBB complaint on the Winchester office was specifically because I don't know. But there was a complaint against them. Log onto dc.bbb.org, under customer services click on obtain a report. Enter the companys phone number which I have already provided. Click on the companys name and read customer experience.

My bankruptcy statement was meant as a blanket statment on the company itself not one individual product.

You're right about complaining for not getting my way. If I had things my way I would have had my deposit back in the 10 days after the cancellation as stated in the "HOME IMPROVEMENT SALE AND INSTALLATION AGREEMENT". OC has $4,240 of my money that they have no right to still have.

Ken, your insistence on refering to people on this site as "idiots, morons,dorks, stupid, cheap or poor" and complaing of "hearsay" and of "people being uneducated and pissing and whining", only proves what kind of people OC has working for them. I think your vulgarity is completly un-called for. I think you are doing a better job of discouraging sales than some of the other posts on this site. For someone who is so loyal to his company you are sure doing your share to harm its reputaion.

I have made no false accusations. I simply reported on my experience. If I don't get my money back by Tue. I will be making more phone calls to OC and the BBB. I have no intentions of making any more phone calls until the mail arrives on Tue. Since you work for the company maybe you can give me the number of somone higher on the totem pole than my local representatives(most recently Brian N. Smith, Richmond). Should the need occur for me to pursue this further. I would be more than happy to discuss it with anyone who can get me my money back.

Having an unfinshed basement forever is better than doing business with a company that employs people like Ken. As I have stated before It is not the product nor the price that led me to cancel. It was the unethical sales tactics. The more nasty comments I get the more I am sure I made the right choice. This is not about product, to me it is about people.

So Ken, what office do you work for? Maybe your boss would like to know about your conduct on this site. I'm sure many people would like to contact your supervisor. Or are you only condescending and obnoxioius when you can be anonymous?
on Nov 10, 2004
I have one point of curiosity. When you say it's considered living space especially with the eggress. Are you talking to me? Because I never mentioned having one.
on Nov 10, 2004
I advise anyone looking to buy the Owens Corning Basement System, pay $10 to $15sq.ft not installed
and no more than $25 to $30 installed including carpet,lighting,windows,doors.
on Nov 10, 2004
Ken- Please just shut up. I am like you and enjoy the OC basement finsihing system, but I do not berate people who have different opinions. Everyone is different and this system is not meant for everyone. Some people can not afford it, some people do not like the sales tactics and so on, but it does not make them stupid or an idiot. Let each consumer make an educated decision on their own. If anything, you are doing more harm than good.

If anyone wants an unbiased consumer that will tell you the ups and downs of the system, rely on myself and not Ken or Vic. The system is great, but not the cheapest on the market. I am a firm believer that you get what you pay for.

For their sales reps. I hope that OC comes to understand the numerous complaints out there and then addresses them with each franchise. It is my understanding that the sales reps are hired by the franchises and not OC. If I am wrong, please let me know. From all of the posts, this seems to be the largest complaint out there along with the price haggling. It would not surprise me to see a change in attitude from the franshises once the right people at OC are made aware of these complaints.

Let this site be a true measure of the good and bad to all products and services and not a chat room for uneducated people that enjoy the constant banter of disagreements.
on Nov 10, 2004
After an uncomfortable sales pitch from an OC sales guy (in SE MI) with a high ($58/sq ft price for about 290 sq ft), we called Erie Constuction and got a quote from them that's $32/sq ft. Their product is more attractive and they were much less pushy. Turns out they also used to sell the OC product (and apparently decided that they could do better with a more attractive alternative).

We decided to go with them. I'll let you know how it goes.
on Nov 10, 2004
To Jas: Not the same product, nor the same wntys or gntys.
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