Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The names change, the characters stay the same
Published on March 8, 2006 By Draginol In Blogging

Every community, especially one as close-knit as JU's is going to have melodrama. 

Sometimes, it's like watching a car wreck. You don't want to look but it's hard not to. Drama, intrigue, gossip, they're hard to resist.

I tend to be a pretty plain person.  I think that's why I've stayed interested in on-line communities for so long or at least survived them this long.  Being straight forward and consistent is, in my opinion, the key to thriving long-term in an on-line community.  The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long as they say.

What I'm going to discuss next is going to relate to a recent melodrama. But the words will remain applicable into the future because what has gone on recently will happen again and again and again. The actors will change but the characters remain the same.

1) What is and isn't out of bounds on JoeUser?

Your blog is your blog. You are free to write about anything you'd like as long as it does not contain the name of a person in the title and isn't essentially a personal attack on another member of the site.

However, IF you choose "Display this article in the forums as well" then it enters the purvue of moderation. This option is on by default. If you want to vent about something, that's fine. But as soon as it goes onto the global forum network, which is syndicated all over, then we care what is on that blog. It's the classic "your rights end where someone else's begins".

2) JoeUser is not a for profit site. It's open to the public to use but the admins aren't your servants.

This is something we're particularly sensitive about.  In a recent post I wrote to the effect that I didn't care if there were bloggers here.  And I don't.  But that's not the same as saying that we don't want bloggers either.  We're neutral.  We have the site, it's free to use. We hope you enjoy the site.  All we ask is that you treat the admins with a basic level of respect and most of all, do not treat us as servants. 

Think of JoeUser as a big party.  It's an expensive party but that's not the issue until someone starts acting like their presence on the site is somehow helping "pay" for the party. 

But like real world parties, guests can be asked to leave.  If someone is being disruptive to other users they'll be warned. If they don't heed that, they'll be asked to leave.  If they're really aggravating the admins, they'll be warned. If they persist, they'll be shown the door. And yes, if someone is on another site saying nasty vile things about the admins or site while at the same time making use of the blogs, we reserve the right to show them the door after giving them time to copy their stuff to use somewhere else. 

The specifics of the LW incident

LW was a prominent member of the site. One of my favorite bloggers. Her husband, Simon, had been on the site a long time as well. He was, to say the least, not one of our favorite bloggers.

Simon wrote a blog, the topic is irrelevant at this point because it's not related to what happened next.  I went on and made a fairly rude comment that was in the spirit of article (the article basically argued how stupid Americans were). 

One of the things that I try not to do is throw in people's faces failings/weaknesses/sensitive issues in an off-topic way.  LW, for instance, once was a member of the KKK. It annoyed me to no end to see people trot this out every time they were in a debate with her regardless of what it was. It was, in my opinion, a very low blow to do that. If they're discussing race relations, okay maybe. But throwing it into a discussion on religion or taxes is simply uncalled for.  So while I may be rude to people on occasion, I don't trot out what I know about people in order to discredit the person.  My rudeness is usually in attacking the message, not the messenger. I sometimes fail that distinction, I make a lot of posts, so it's all in the percentages.

Anyway, Simon responded in a way that really aggravated me by attempting to dismiss what I had to say by instructing me to go back to using JoeUser to peddle our products.  So I made clear: I am not above removing a blogger for pissing me off. 

Simon's next response essentially escalated the issue by telling me how i should run a business and other such things. Like what?

"And yes, despite this display of childishness I am still considering blogging here should the site ever start charging. Though your service of JU had better improve a thousand-fold if you want to keep your current clientele here." and "Get the knot out of your panties, quit squalling like a scalded brat, and address the argument. Or stay away, if it freaks you out. Either way, next time you want to stamp your feet and threaten, try remembering that you don't attract customers by trying to bully them."

Anyone reading this who thinks that we should put up with that should cut their losses now and leave. There are no circumstances where I would ever tolerate a user talking to me in this way on JoeUser. So if you're feeling like "big brother" is squashing your "free speech" rights by not allowing you to insult the admins in the most arrogant, nasty ways possible, then this place isn't the place for you.  I'm very comfortable with the line being drawn here. 

Some people would feel what he wrote was perfectly okay and that's their right to think so but it won't fly on JoeUser.  I won't put up with it so I'm entirely fine with people who think that kind of behavior as being acceptable leaving.  Incidentally, the entirety of what he was responding to was "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves.  You can be "confident" about that."  That was what I said that resulted in what he wrote.

I could have responded very harshly since I know Simon and LW's personal circumstances.  It was very tempting to do so.  But I didn't.  Instead, I removed him from the site.

LW, as his wife, decided to leave with him.  While that was sad, I could understand it.  My wife would do the same for me.  Over the weekend I moved him from Exiled to PermBanned. This had the side-effect of doing the same to LW (which wasn't the intention) since PermBans take IP addresses used into account. They have the same IPs, so bam. A weird scenario where a user of normal access is also banned (hey a JU first).

This is where the facts end and from here we get into speculation.

However, given how long JU has been around and how consistent I think things have been run over the years, there was nothing in their previous experience that would have led them to think I was bluffing.  That I would back down.  So in essence, Simon chose to get himself kicked off, probably knowing that his wife, who spent years building something here, would follow suit. 

I'm not even sure they realize (or admit anyway) that Simon's behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable even though people in the past have been exiled for doing much the same thing. 

People rarely get exiled. But at the same time, we won't take abuse from users. A user will get a warning if they're trotting over the line. But after that, they're gone.  We also exiled Furry Canary as well for much the same thing. 

Cleaning house

With the upheaval, we looked at this as an opportunity to clean house a bit.  Cliques form and they drive people away.  I'm not happy to see LW go. I enjoyed her writing even if she was a toxic user. She drove other people away through bullying and domination. Or she played people to get them so riled up that they would get themselves exiled by going way over the line. I remember one person emailing me with a certain level of half-admiration/half-loathing in the way LW could drive others of the edge.  Anyone remember Dabe?

What has saddened me about the LW situatoin is how quickly friendship turns into demands for submission.  We don't make demands on users other than to not abuse us. We want people to have a good time. If staying makes them happy, then good.  If leaving makes them happy, then good.  I was saddened to see that LW took her voluntary exile as an opportunity to try to play the role of some sort of rebel leader against "the man" and labeling me as the  "king of petulance". For what? Because I got rid of her husband for repeatedly insulting me, name calling me, etc. on my own site that I share with him free of charge? Shame on me I guess.

I've also taken this opportunity to show another blogger the door after they were going around on other sites saying that JoeUser is akin to "Hitler's Germany" (which would make me Hiitler in this analogy). We have given them 10 days to copy their contents so that they can move them but simply put, the "Reich" doesn't way to pay to host their blog.  If someone thinks JU is so bad that it can be compared to Nazi Germany, then why would they want to have a blog here?

What makes JoeUser different from a blogspot or whatever is that it's a blog community. Our blogs are interconnected. It's a site designed in a way such that lots of people will read what you write.  We want people to have a good time here.  But WE also want to have a good time here too. It's no fun when you come onto the site and there's a handful of people sucking out the fun for us as well as plenty of other people.

As interesting as melodrama is, it's taxing. It sucks up energy.  I respect LW's decision to leave. I understand it. I will miss her writings. I liked her articles a lot. But I'm not going to miss the melodrama or the polarizing nature of her presence.  I'm almost not going to miss the clique-building.  And I'm not going to miss people who think it's okay to come over to someone's site and crap on the people who running it.

The site isn't about us. It's about the people who make blogs. Who share their writings. Who share their thoughts. It's what makes JoeUser special.  When people start excessively focusing on individual members of the site, we're all poorer for it. 

This situation will rise again. There will be more Wisefawns, Little Whips, Sir Peter Maxwells and other colorful characters who shine twice as bright in their time but eventually self-destruct. It will keep happening over and over again.  It'll pass.  Some people will leave in protest and new people will join. 


Comments (Page 2)
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on Mar 08, 2006
The flame that burns twice as bright lasts twice as long as they say.


just the opposite actually.

First Fig

My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--
It gives a lovely light!

-- Edna St. Vincent Millay
on Mar 08, 2006
lol...shut up, Baker...just shut up.
on Mar 08, 2006

I guess I don't understand why people can't do well here.  I've been here over 2 years and I've said pretty much what I want, when I want...but I've never been warned by admin.  I did get asked to lock one thread, but that was because of the direction the comments went in rather than the subject matter. 

Marcie, I'm going to be sad to see you go.  Again, I don't understand what you can't do well here; if I can do it you should be able to.  Just promise me that you'll try to work on not taking everything people say to you and making it criticism.

on Mar 08, 2006
Marcie, I'm going to be sad to see you go. Again, I don't understand what you can't do well here; if I can do it you should be able to. Just promise me that you'll try to work on not taking everything people say to you and making it criticism.


I guess if I lived in a JU vaccuum everything would be cool. You've got my email address, and I've got yours. Be watching your snail mail box soon!
on Mar 08, 2006
lol, no, Marcie... no.

That's always been your problem, the only way you can be happy here is if those of us who often differ with you shut up. I haven't minded being blacklisted by you, as I am now. I just think it is a sign of your own problems that you can't respond to an argument with anything but "whatever" or "shut up".

Have a nice life. None of us live in a 'JU vaccuum', but if it makes you feel better, you just go on and think that.
on Mar 08, 2006
I just think it is a sign of your own problems that you can't respond to an argument with anything but "whatever" or "shut up"


I think its a sign of your arrogance and...asinineness that you can't get over yourself and see someone else's point of view, and feel like you have to argue with them even when they agree with you.

And...it's also just like you to think you've got me all figured out. You're wrong. You have *no* idea what my life outside of JU is like. And you don't care. So why are we having this conversation?
on Mar 08, 2006
LOL, Marcie, funny that you didn't quote what you said other than that on LW's new blog.  I also like how you first responded with "Kay", but you just couldn't walk away.  ~shrugs
on Mar 08, 2006
Wow, who's next? Dharma?

I didn't particularly care for Sabrina, but I read her. I read Marcie. I read Tex and Dharma and Tova and Shades.

I DON'T read Baker. Never will.

Kind of sad to see those I read booted while the ones that pick constantly at those I read get to sit back with impunity.

Baker: Shut up.
on Mar 08, 2006
I can't believe I read that whole thing. I think I'll go play Gal Civ II now.
on Mar 08, 2006
LOL, Marcie, funny that you didn't quote what you said other than that on LW's new blog. I also like how you first responded with "Kay", but you just couldn't walk away. ~shrugs


Obviously neither can you. You're getting what you want, Angela. Can't you just go ten days without a nasty, rude comment, just because you're an admin?
on Mar 08, 2006
Baker: Shut up.


xtine: No. It sounds like if everyone you like doesn't get by well here, and everyone you don't like gets along well, maybe this isn't a good place for you any more than it is Marcie.

I don't get it. Why the hell do you guys hang around in places where you seem to be so miserable? I don't like to see people feeling like this, but damn. If I go to someone's barbeque and it's full of people I dislike and all my friends are on the outs with the owner, I'd be going to have my own barbeque.

The key to this seems to be the idea that there's some obligation to make the environment suitable for anyone, no matter their tastes. The environment, though, is the PRODUCT of the people in a place. Why would you expect to like a place full of people you don't get along with?
on Mar 08, 2006
xtine, you aren't paying attention if you think Tex, dharma, Tova or Shades have anyting to do with this.

Kind of sad to see those I read booted while the ones that pick constantly at those I read get to sit back with impunity.


This made me laugh. The ones that got booted did it for 'constantly picking at' those that run the site. The others you mentioned have impunity because they didn't. Do you think it is right for Marcie to compare the place to Hitler's Germany?
on Mar 08, 2006

(baffled)

Marcie, even ignoring all the other things you wrote about me and JoeUser, just using your own quote:

I think we have a little taste of what it might have felt like to live in Hitler's Germany.

That makes me Hitler and JoeUser Nazi Germany.  If you had a neighbor who was comparing you with Hitler, would you be inviting them over to dinner? I think not.

You can't have it both ways.  You can't run around saying the JoeUser is the third Reich AND then turn around and have a blog on it. As mentioned, you're not being banned, but the reich doesn't want to host your blog.

on Mar 08, 2006

Wow, who's next? Dharma?

I didn't particularly care for Sabrina, but I read her. I read Marcie. I read Tex and Dharma and Tova and Shades.

I DON'T read Baker. Never will.

Kind of sad to see those I read booted while the ones that pick constantly at those I read get to sit back with impunity.

Huh? Let me say this clearly: Little Whip wasn't banned. Only her husband. LW voluntarily left because her husband was banned. Sheesh. This isn't rocket science.

on Mar 08, 2006
ok, whoa, I'll back off and defer before I'm kicked/banned/exiled as well.
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