Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The names change, the characters stay the same
Published on March 8, 2006 By Draginol In Blogging

Every community, especially one as close-knit as JU's is going to have melodrama. 

Sometimes, it's like watching a car wreck. You don't want to look but it's hard not to. Drama, intrigue, gossip, they're hard to resist.

I tend to be a pretty plain person.  I think that's why I've stayed interested in on-line communities for so long or at least survived them this long.  Being straight forward and consistent is, in my opinion, the key to thriving long-term in an on-line community.  The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long as they say.

What I'm going to discuss next is going to relate to a recent melodrama. But the words will remain applicable into the future because what has gone on recently will happen again and again and again. The actors will change but the characters remain the same.

1) What is and isn't out of bounds on JoeUser?

Your blog is your blog. You are free to write about anything you'd like as long as it does not contain the name of a person in the title and isn't essentially a personal attack on another member of the site.

However, IF you choose "Display this article in the forums as well" then it enters the purvue of moderation. This option is on by default. If you want to vent about something, that's fine. But as soon as it goes onto the global forum network, which is syndicated all over, then we care what is on that blog. It's the classic "your rights end where someone else's begins".

2) JoeUser is not a for profit site. It's open to the public to use but the admins aren't your servants.

This is something we're particularly sensitive about.  In a recent post I wrote to the effect that I didn't care if there were bloggers here.  And I don't.  But that's not the same as saying that we don't want bloggers either.  We're neutral.  We have the site, it's free to use. We hope you enjoy the site.  All we ask is that you treat the admins with a basic level of respect and most of all, do not treat us as servants. 

Think of JoeUser as a big party.  It's an expensive party but that's not the issue until someone starts acting like their presence on the site is somehow helping "pay" for the party. 

But like real world parties, guests can be asked to leave.  If someone is being disruptive to other users they'll be warned. If they don't heed that, they'll be asked to leave.  If they're really aggravating the admins, they'll be warned. If they persist, they'll be shown the door. And yes, if someone is on another site saying nasty vile things about the admins or site while at the same time making use of the blogs, we reserve the right to show them the door after giving them time to copy their stuff to use somewhere else. 

The specifics of the LW incident

LW was a prominent member of the site. One of my favorite bloggers. Her husband, Simon, had been on the site a long time as well. He was, to say the least, not one of our favorite bloggers.

Simon wrote a blog, the topic is irrelevant at this point because it's not related to what happened next.  I went on and made a fairly rude comment that was in the spirit of article (the article basically argued how stupid Americans were). 

One of the things that I try not to do is throw in people's faces failings/weaknesses/sensitive issues in an off-topic way.  LW, for instance, once was a member of the KKK. It annoyed me to no end to see people trot this out every time they were in a debate with her regardless of what it was. It was, in my opinion, a very low blow to do that. If they're discussing race relations, okay maybe. But throwing it into a discussion on religion or taxes is simply uncalled for.  So while I may be rude to people on occasion, I don't trot out what I know about people in order to discredit the person.  My rudeness is usually in attacking the message, not the messenger. I sometimes fail that distinction, I make a lot of posts, so it's all in the percentages.

Anyway, Simon responded in a way that really aggravated me by attempting to dismiss what I had to say by instructing me to go back to using JoeUser to peddle our products.  So I made clear: I am not above removing a blogger for pissing me off. 

Simon's next response essentially escalated the issue by telling me how i should run a business and other such things. Like what?

"And yes, despite this display of childishness I am still considering blogging here should the site ever start charging. Though your service of JU had better improve a thousand-fold if you want to keep your current clientele here." and "Get the knot out of your panties, quit squalling like a scalded brat, and address the argument. Or stay away, if it freaks you out. Either way, next time you want to stamp your feet and threaten, try remembering that you don't attract customers by trying to bully them."

Anyone reading this who thinks that we should put up with that should cut their losses now and leave. There are no circumstances where I would ever tolerate a user talking to me in this way on JoeUser. So if you're feeling like "big brother" is squashing your "free speech" rights by not allowing you to insult the admins in the most arrogant, nasty ways possible, then this place isn't the place for you.  I'm very comfortable with the line being drawn here. 

Some people would feel what he wrote was perfectly okay and that's their right to think so but it won't fly on JoeUser.  I won't put up with it so I'm entirely fine with people who think that kind of behavior as being acceptable leaving.  Incidentally, the entirety of what he was responding to was "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves.  You can be "confident" about that."  That was what I said that resulted in what he wrote.

I could have responded very harshly since I know Simon and LW's personal circumstances.  It was very tempting to do so.  But I didn't.  Instead, I removed him from the site.

LW, as his wife, decided to leave with him.  While that was sad, I could understand it.  My wife would do the same for me.  Over the weekend I moved him from Exiled to PermBanned. This had the side-effect of doing the same to LW (which wasn't the intention) since PermBans take IP addresses used into account. They have the same IPs, so bam. A weird scenario where a user of normal access is also banned (hey a JU first).

This is where the facts end and from here we get into speculation.

However, given how long JU has been around and how consistent I think things have been run over the years, there was nothing in their previous experience that would have led them to think I was bluffing.  That I would back down.  So in essence, Simon chose to get himself kicked off, probably knowing that his wife, who spent years building something here, would follow suit. 

I'm not even sure they realize (or admit anyway) that Simon's behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable even though people in the past have been exiled for doing much the same thing. 

People rarely get exiled. But at the same time, we won't take abuse from users. A user will get a warning if they're trotting over the line. But after that, they're gone.  We also exiled Furry Canary as well for much the same thing. 

Cleaning house

With the upheaval, we looked at this as an opportunity to clean house a bit.  Cliques form and they drive people away.  I'm not happy to see LW go. I enjoyed her writing even if she was a toxic user. She drove other people away through bullying and domination. Or she played people to get them so riled up that they would get themselves exiled by going way over the line. I remember one person emailing me with a certain level of half-admiration/half-loathing in the way LW could drive others of the edge.  Anyone remember Dabe?

What has saddened me about the LW situatoin is how quickly friendship turns into demands for submission.  We don't make demands on users other than to not abuse us. We want people to have a good time. If staying makes them happy, then good.  If leaving makes them happy, then good.  I was saddened to see that LW took her voluntary exile as an opportunity to try to play the role of some sort of rebel leader against "the man" and labeling me as the  "king of petulance". For what? Because I got rid of her husband for repeatedly insulting me, name calling me, etc. on my own site that I share with him free of charge? Shame on me I guess.

I've also taken this opportunity to show another blogger the door after they were going around on other sites saying that JoeUser is akin to "Hitler's Germany" (which would make me Hiitler in this analogy). We have given them 10 days to copy their contents so that they can move them but simply put, the "Reich" doesn't way to pay to host their blog.  If someone thinks JU is so bad that it can be compared to Nazi Germany, then why would they want to have a blog here?

What makes JoeUser different from a blogspot or whatever is that it's a blog community. Our blogs are interconnected. It's a site designed in a way such that lots of people will read what you write.  We want people to have a good time here.  But WE also want to have a good time here too. It's no fun when you come onto the site and there's a handful of people sucking out the fun for us as well as plenty of other people.

As interesting as melodrama is, it's taxing. It sucks up energy.  I respect LW's decision to leave. I understand it. I will miss her writings. I liked her articles a lot. But I'm not going to miss the melodrama or the polarizing nature of her presence.  I'm almost not going to miss the clique-building.  And I'm not going to miss people who think it's okay to come over to someone's site and crap on the people who running it.

The site isn't about us. It's about the people who make blogs. Who share their writings. Who share their thoughts. It's what makes JoeUser special.  When people start excessively focusing on individual members of the site, we're all poorer for it. 

This situation will rise again. There will be more Wisefawns, Little Whips, Sir Peter Maxwells and other colorful characters who shine twice as bright in their time but eventually self-destruct. It will keep happening over and over again.  It'll pass.  Some people will leave in protest and new people will join. 


Comments (Page 3)
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on Mar 08, 2006

ok, whoa, I'll back off and defer before I'm kicked/banned/exiled as well.

Right..because the reich is very strict. I mean, we just ban people left and right.  Next week we'll be instituting bans based on random letters in handles. 

on Mar 08, 2006

Can't you just go ten days without a nasty, rude comment, just because you're an admin?

What, I'm nasty and rude because I pointed out what you did?  It has nothing to do with me being an admin- anyone could have pointed it out.  Can you dispute what I said?

on Mar 08, 2006

Right..because the reich is very strict. I mean, we just ban people left and right. Next week we'll be instituting bans based on random letters in handles.

According to the random ban generator, I will be banned from April 11th until April 16th.  It shows no mercy...

on Mar 08, 2006
Baker: Shut up.


this is ironic as hell cuz bakerstreet is the last person here from whom i'd expect to hear a serious demand we (any of the rest of us) shut up.

you have every right to avoid reading bakerstreet's stuff, but you risk doing yourself a serious disservice should you choose to do so (in my opinion, this holds true whether you agree with him or find his his every opinin the polar opposite of yours).
on Mar 08, 2006
I think that the secret to my happiness here on JU is that I don't read many others' posts. (Illustrating the value of a clever or interesting title)

I knew that there was some sort of issue out there, but not until now did I know what it was.

It seems like a lot of you take this "online community" stuff too seriously. (I like it because it gets my articles on Google!) For those of you who take this stuff so seriously: My advice to you would be to get a life.
on Mar 08, 2006
It seems like a lot of you take this "online community" stuff too seriously. (I like it because it gets my articles on Google!) For those of you who take this stuff so seriously: My advice to you would be to get a life.


Spoken by a truly wise man.

I think its interesting how you all bust my chops, but it's okay for Brad to announce publicly that he's ousting me.

Isn't that what you accused me of a while back, Brad? Not responding to a portion of your post?

Hmmmm....
on Mar 08, 2006
You can't have it both ways. You can't run around saying the JoeUser is the third Reich AND then turn around and have a blog on it. As mentioned, you're not being banned, but the reich doesn't want to host your blog.


That's all fine and dandy. Bully for you!

I still think it was asinine of you to announce it just so you could have your ego stroked. But...~shrugs~ It's your world, boss.
on Mar 08, 2006
Marcie, why don't you just stop.  Otherwise, we can only assume you have removed everything you want and will exile you now.
on Mar 08, 2006
This just makes me wanna hurl.

I think all of you need to give it a rest... Seriously!

It's only a blogsite.
on Mar 08, 2006
This just makes me wanna hurl.

I think all of you need to give it a rest... Seriously!

It's only a blogsite.


Agreed. Blah.
on Mar 08, 2006
I DON'T read Baker. Never will.


Your loss, not Bakers.


I wasn't going to wander into this thread, instead preferring to lurk, but your comments above just show a lack of faith in your own beliefs or an expectation that you might learn something new by reading a blog like Bakers.


There are plenty of folks here at JU that I don't agree with, and who I might be tempted to argue with, but I try to get around and read as many threads and articles as I can because it's very possible I might learn something in doing so.

That's a big part of the beauty of the JU community. There may be members we differ with, but by hashing out the topics, we can all better understand the other points of view that exist out there.

There are rarely worse things to find than closed minds, but obviously there are plenty of closed minds here... The quote above an obvious example of one. Just about any article by the resident Bush bashers are others. Of course some on the other side might say the same thing of Baker, Moderate Man, Dr. Guy, myself or a few others, but when they do, I think they aren't being honest with themselves and are showing a level of ignorance of where many of us really come from.
on Mar 09, 2006
Sounds like a plan Draginol. The old concert security adage of "The people are here to have fun, we're here because some want to have the "wrong kind" of fun" seems to work here.

I know I've spent more than my share of spewing out the "wrong kind" of fun here. To tell you the truth, there was a time that I wasn't exactly sure why you didn't toss me on my ear like a unruly brat. Glad you didn't though.
on Mar 09, 2006
To tell you the truth, there was a time that I wasn't exactly sure why you didn't toss me on my ear like a unruly brat. Glad you didn't though.


And I'm glad of that too (lest I be denied the opportunity to easily read your works Ted )
on Mar 09, 2006
Lol...I came home tonight from work and Marcie told me to check out JU. I told her I was too tired and she told me she was getting the boot, most of the boot. She told me what happened and my reply was?

"no...seriously, why are you getting the boot? ............really?.....no way, that doesnt make any sense, you made a comment somewhere else and now you cant even do that?"

Well...dont take this personally, but I think its a bunch of horseshit. Now...we, if we have a disagreement on here, cant go elsewhere and vent our frustrations which ARE allowed? Holy crap! I mean, Marcie relates you guys to Nazi Germany:


*You allow only what you deem fit to allow
*disagreement and insubordination to your will and authority is not allowed and results in banishment
*going anywhere else (trying to get out of Germany) and saying anything bad...is simply not allowed.
*discussion and talking...are pretty much allowed to only go one way if things heat up.
*our true feelings and emotions towards others are not allowed....well they are...but if you show them and they are bad towards us...(points to the "freedom of speech....this way" door)
*we make up rules as we see fit and impose them at our will

Try to clear things up on here and tell me how it is NOT?

It's not a democracy

Obviously...but...if its not a democracy...what is it then? Lets think about this....in the world there is:

Anarchy
Capitalist
Communist
Democracy
Dictatorship
Federal government
Monarchy
Regional or local
Republic
Revolutionary government
Totalitarian state
Transitional

What is JU?

Where is this listed as something that is not allowed, in the TOS? I know I know...you 'say' its not the TOS. I know...I know...its 'Terms of use"....according to you. I dont know....maybe you guys are playing a pretty sneaky trick on me....but ...the damned page itself says TOS....and this site is constantly referred to as a 'service.'

Just change it to Terms of Compliance. That might work out better.

But...alas, I spoke my mind and defended my fiancee. So....my freedom of speech will be quashed like a bug.

*crawling on my side towards the door* Et tu, Brute?

*gives up my last breath of air.....*
on Mar 09, 2006
Freedom of speech? JU isn't any of those things you list, because it isn't a state with a government. It's a friggin server in a rack somewhere that is storing what you say on a hard drive, that you may or may not be able to connect to based upon the whim of the owner.

Walk into any church, free for anyone to attend, then call one of the blue haired ladies in the front row a nasty name and see if an open public invitation limits the owner's ability to toss you out. Tell ya what, sparky, you go to work tomorrow and tell your boss he's a nazi. Better yet say he is here, and then go tell him you put it on the Internet. You'll get a lesson in your 'freedom of speech' pdq.
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