Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The names change, the characters stay the same
Published on March 8, 2006 By Draginol In Blogging

Every community, especially one as close-knit as JU's is going to have melodrama. 

Sometimes, it's like watching a car wreck. You don't want to look but it's hard not to. Drama, intrigue, gossip, they're hard to resist.

I tend to be a pretty plain person.  I think that's why I've stayed interested in on-line communities for so long or at least survived them this long.  Being straight forward and consistent is, in my opinion, the key to thriving long-term in an on-line community.  The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long as they say.

What I'm going to discuss next is going to relate to a recent melodrama. But the words will remain applicable into the future because what has gone on recently will happen again and again and again. The actors will change but the characters remain the same.

1) What is and isn't out of bounds on JoeUser?

Your blog is your blog. You are free to write about anything you'd like as long as it does not contain the name of a person in the title and isn't essentially a personal attack on another member of the site.

However, IF you choose "Display this article in the forums as well" then it enters the purvue of moderation. This option is on by default. If you want to vent about something, that's fine. But as soon as it goes onto the global forum network, which is syndicated all over, then we care what is on that blog. It's the classic "your rights end where someone else's begins".

2) JoeUser is not a for profit site. It's open to the public to use but the admins aren't your servants.

This is something we're particularly sensitive about.  In a recent post I wrote to the effect that I didn't care if there were bloggers here.  And I don't.  But that's not the same as saying that we don't want bloggers either.  We're neutral.  We have the site, it's free to use. We hope you enjoy the site.  All we ask is that you treat the admins with a basic level of respect and most of all, do not treat us as servants. 

Think of JoeUser as a big party.  It's an expensive party but that's not the issue until someone starts acting like their presence on the site is somehow helping "pay" for the party. 

But like real world parties, guests can be asked to leave.  If someone is being disruptive to other users they'll be warned. If they don't heed that, they'll be asked to leave.  If they're really aggravating the admins, they'll be warned. If they persist, they'll be shown the door. And yes, if someone is on another site saying nasty vile things about the admins or site while at the same time making use of the blogs, we reserve the right to show them the door after giving them time to copy their stuff to use somewhere else. 

The specifics of the LW incident

LW was a prominent member of the site. One of my favorite bloggers. Her husband, Simon, had been on the site a long time as well. He was, to say the least, not one of our favorite bloggers.

Simon wrote a blog, the topic is irrelevant at this point because it's not related to what happened next.  I went on and made a fairly rude comment that was in the spirit of article (the article basically argued how stupid Americans were). 

One of the things that I try not to do is throw in people's faces failings/weaknesses/sensitive issues in an off-topic way.  LW, for instance, once was a member of the KKK. It annoyed me to no end to see people trot this out every time they were in a debate with her regardless of what it was. It was, in my opinion, a very low blow to do that. If they're discussing race relations, okay maybe. But throwing it into a discussion on religion or taxes is simply uncalled for.  So while I may be rude to people on occasion, I don't trot out what I know about people in order to discredit the person.  My rudeness is usually in attacking the message, not the messenger. I sometimes fail that distinction, I make a lot of posts, so it's all in the percentages.

Anyway, Simon responded in a way that really aggravated me by attempting to dismiss what I had to say by instructing me to go back to using JoeUser to peddle our products.  So I made clear: I am not above removing a blogger for pissing me off. 

Simon's next response essentially escalated the issue by telling me how i should run a business and other such things. Like what?

"And yes, despite this display of childishness I am still considering blogging here should the site ever start charging. Though your service of JU had better improve a thousand-fold if you want to keep your current clientele here." and "Get the knot out of your panties, quit squalling like a scalded brat, and address the argument. Or stay away, if it freaks you out. Either way, next time you want to stamp your feet and threaten, try remembering that you don't attract customers by trying to bully them."

Anyone reading this who thinks that we should put up with that should cut their losses now and leave. There are no circumstances where I would ever tolerate a user talking to me in this way on JoeUser. So if you're feeling like "big brother" is squashing your "free speech" rights by not allowing you to insult the admins in the most arrogant, nasty ways possible, then this place isn't the place for you.  I'm very comfortable with the line being drawn here. 

Some people would feel what he wrote was perfectly okay and that's their right to think so but it won't fly on JoeUser.  I won't put up with it so I'm entirely fine with people who think that kind of behavior as being acceptable leaving.  Incidentally, the entirety of what he was responding to was "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves.  You can be "confident" about that."  That was what I said that resulted in what he wrote.

I could have responded very harshly since I know Simon and LW's personal circumstances.  It was very tempting to do so.  But I didn't.  Instead, I removed him from the site.

LW, as his wife, decided to leave with him.  While that was sad, I could understand it.  My wife would do the same for me.  Over the weekend I moved him from Exiled to PermBanned. This had the side-effect of doing the same to LW (which wasn't the intention) since PermBans take IP addresses used into account. They have the same IPs, so bam. A weird scenario where a user of normal access is also banned (hey a JU first).

This is where the facts end and from here we get into speculation.

However, given how long JU has been around and how consistent I think things have been run over the years, there was nothing in their previous experience that would have led them to think I was bluffing.  That I would back down.  So in essence, Simon chose to get himself kicked off, probably knowing that his wife, who spent years building something here, would follow suit. 

I'm not even sure they realize (or admit anyway) that Simon's behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable even though people in the past have been exiled for doing much the same thing. 

People rarely get exiled. But at the same time, we won't take abuse from users. A user will get a warning if they're trotting over the line. But after that, they're gone.  We also exiled Furry Canary as well for much the same thing. 

Cleaning house

With the upheaval, we looked at this as an opportunity to clean house a bit.  Cliques form and they drive people away.  I'm not happy to see LW go. I enjoyed her writing even if she was a toxic user. She drove other people away through bullying and domination. Or she played people to get them so riled up that they would get themselves exiled by going way over the line. I remember one person emailing me with a certain level of half-admiration/half-loathing in the way LW could drive others of the edge.  Anyone remember Dabe?

What has saddened me about the LW situatoin is how quickly friendship turns into demands for submission.  We don't make demands on users other than to not abuse us. We want people to have a good time. If staying makes them happy, then good.  If leaving makes them happy, then good.  I was saddened to see that LW took her voluntary exile as an opportunity to try to play the role of some sort of rebel leader against "the man" and labeling me as the  "king of petulance". For what? Because I got rid of her husband for repeatedly insulting me, name calling me, etc. on my own site that I share with him free of charge? Shame on me I guess.

I've also taken this opportunity to show another blogger the door after they were going around on other sites saying that JoeUser is akin to "Hitler's Germany" (which would make me Hiitler in this analogy). We have given them 10 days to copy their contents so that they can move them but simply put, the "Reich" doesn't way to pay to host their blog.  If someone thinks JU is so bad that it can be compared to Nazi Germany, then why would they want to have a blog here?

What makes JoeUser different from a blogspot or whatever is that it's a blog community. Our blogs are interconnected. It's a site designed in a way such that lots of people will read what you write.  We want people to have a good time here.  But WE also want to have a good time here too. It's no fun when you come onto the site and there's a handful of people sucking out the fun for us as well as plenty of other people.

As interesting as melodrama is, it's taxing. It sucks up energy.  I respect LW's decision to leave. I understand it. I will miss her writings. I liked her articles a lot. But I'm not going to miss the melodrama or the polarizing nature of her presence.  I'm almost not going to miss the clique-building.  And I'm not going to miss people who think it's okay to come over to someone's site and crap on the people who running it.

The site isn't about us. It's about the people who make blogs. Who share their writings. Who share their thoughts. It's what makes JoeUser special.  When people start excessively focusing on individual members of the site, we're all poorer for it. 

This situation will rise again. There will be more Wisefawns, Little Whips, Sir Peter Maxwells and other colorful characters who shine twice as bright in their time but eventually self-destruct. It will keep happening over and over again.  It'll pass.  Some people will leave in protest and new people will join. 


Comments (Page 4)
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on Mar 09, 2006
What is JU?


In the immortal words of RUSH...

JU (and everything else that has anything to do with data on computers) is:

A bunch of 1s and 0s that are manipulated by someone to bring about a desired response.

In this case it is Brads bunch of 1s and 0s. Nothing more. Nothing less. I'm just glad I can be along for the ride.
on Mar 09, 2006
Right..because the reich is very strict. I mean, we just ban people left and right. Next week we'll be instituting bans based on random letters in handles.

I'm pretty safe then. My nick only uses one letter.

It's a dictatorship. Therefore JU is not Germany. Right forms for governance for right tasks, I say. Nice work being a dictator, Brad! (No irony or anything here)

I didn't know I had to be careful what I said elsewhere. Should I censor my emails to relatives? Cancel my website on weddingchannel.com? Do you approve of that? What about cnn.com? Or...what about caringbridge.org to check on family and friends struggling with cancer? Or dexonline.com trying to book photographers? Is that okay?

Everything is interconnected. What you said, someone you don't want to know what you said WILL hear of it. It may not be right away, but it will happen. JU or any place in internet or in plain ol' network of friends, enemies, etc, do not exist in vacuum. Everything is connected to everything else.
on Mar 09, 2006
Walk into any church, free for anyone to attend, then call one of the blue haired ladies in the front row a nasty name and see if an open public invitation limits the owner's ability to toss you out.


For one, there isnt any name calling here going on at the moment. This argument didnt just occur out of the blue. I didnt just sit here and decide...oh...lets pick on the owner of the site tonight! I personally feel its incredibly low to go to another blog website entirely and then kick someone off here for what they are free to say over there. Marcie Certainly couldnt feel free to voice her opinions on here, so she did elsewhere, and alas....she still gets the shaft. Thats the problem I have.

on Mar 09, 2006
Ziggy, you just can't get the point and that boggles me. For one thing, LW was using this site to advertise her new site so Marcie had to have known that JUers would see what she wrote there. I am trying to spell it out for you even though I think everyone else did a darn good job of it already, this is a privately owned site on a privately owned server. You go around ANYWHERE calling the owner hitler and his site Nazi Germany you should expect to no longer be welcome use up space there.

If you can't grasp why the owner of a place doesn't want to feed a guest who is going around trashing him, then this isn't the place for you either.

Marcie didn't get the shaft, she was hostile toward the host of the party so she got asked to leave. BTW, she didn't get banned. She just got told that JU no longer wishes to provide space for her since she has such a nasty attitude toward the place and it's owner. Again, if you can't see that as reasonable, leave.
on Mar 09, 2006
But...alas, I spoke my mind and defended my fiancee. So....my freedom of speech will be quashed like a bug.


Such melodrama on a thread about leaving the melodrama behind.
on Mar 09, 2006
Such melodrama on a thread about leaving the melodrama behind


I'm glad that I'm not the only one who sees that.
on Mar 09, 2006

If you can't grasp why the owner of a place doesn't want to feed a guest who is going around trashing him, then this isn't the place for you either.

I 100% agree with that.  You can leave with Marcie if you can't grasp why what she did is wrong. 

on Mar 09, 2006
The melodrama is continued by these kinds of articles. All that was necessary was an email saying "hey bitch, you're through". Not a "Hey JU...I'm kicking Marcie out! Do you wanna say 'to hell with her' too?" post. Because that's what this article is.

I considered it over. But some people just can't let it go. You want to let it go? Stop replying on this thread.

Seriously.

Grow up.

And Ryan...you don't need to stick up for me, because being forced to leave here really isn't a loss at all. A privilege, really. I don't think I really want to keep online company with people like this. It's really a waste.
on Mar 09, 2006
Just a quick note...

Freedom of Speech does NOT apply to online forums. The Freedom of Speech bit is to protect the populace from any LAWS passed by the GOVERNMENT that would limit speech and expression. This is not a govt funded site. It is privately owned and operated. Same principle applies to your local mall. You can sit on the bench and yell profanities and you'll be removed from the premesis. Your freedom of speech isn't being abridged since it's private property.

I wish to God people would sit down and THINK about the FoS thing before they shoot their mouths off...
on Mar 09, 2006
All that was necessary was an email saying "hey bitch, you're through". Not a "Hey JU...I'm kicking Marcie out! Do you wanna say 'to hell with her' too?" Because that's what this article is.


You see it as that because you have a different (skewed) point of view. Other people obviously don't see it that way, babes.
Not everyone is out to get you, Marcie. There isn't any sinister plot to get rid of you, and there never has been. I wish that I could have you believe that.

I'm sorry that you're going away.
on Mar 09, 2006
You see it as that because you have a different (skewed) point of view. Other people obviously don't see it that way, babes.
Not everyone is out to get you, Marcie. There isn't any sinister plot to get rid of you, and there never has been. I wish that I could have you believe that.

I'm sorry that you're going away.


You think an announcement was necessary?
on Mar 09, 2006
shhhhhh .... for all of you who believe this is nazi germany. I found a hole in the fence .... be quiet .... I'll distract hitler and all the SS soldiers while you sneak out to freedom ..... No, don't say goodbye ... this place is evil and you want to escape, why would you want to say goodbye .... what you have to tell hitler how horrible he is before you go ... well, okay ...
on Mar 09, 2006

Anarchy
Capitalist
Communist
Democracy
Dictatorship
Federal government
Monarchy
Regional or local
Republic
Revolutionary government
Totalitarian state
Transitional

What is JU?


There are online communities that are democracies (Usenet), there are online communities that are anarchies (alt.*), but a private Web site appears to me as a principality.

The prince pays for it, the prince defends it.

I suppose a dictatorship would be taking over somebody else's site.
on Mar 09, 2006

I found a hole in the fence


It's behind the Web browser, isn't it?

I have found it a long time ago, but I always came back.
on Mar 09, 2006
JoeUser is obviously a feudalist monarchy.
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