Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The names change, the characters stay the same
Published on March 8, 2006 By Draginol In Blogging

Every community, especially one as close-knit as JU's is going to have melodrama. 

Sometimes, it's like watching a car wreck. You don't want to look but it's hard not to. Drama, intrigue, gossip, they're hard to resist.

I tend to be a pretty plain person.  I think that's why I've stayed interested in on-line communities for so long or at least survived them this long.  Being straight forward and consistent is, in my opinion, the key to thriving long-term in an on-line community.  The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long as they say.

What I'm going to discuss next is going to relate to a recent melodrama. But the words will remain applicable into the future because what has gone on recently will happen again and again and again. The actors will change but the characters remain the same.

1) What is and isn't out of bounds on JoeUser?

Your blog is your blog. You are free to write about anything you'd like as long as it does not contain the name of a person in the title and isn't essentially a personal attack on another member of the site.

However, IF you choose "Display this article in the forums as well" then it enters the purvue of moderation. This option is on by default. If you want to vent about something, that's fine. But as soon as it goes onto the global forum network, which is syndicated all over, then we care what is on that blog. It's the classic "your rights end where someone else's begins".

2) JoeUser is not a for profit site. It's open to the public to use but the admins aren't your servants.

This is something we're particularly sensitive about.  In a recent post I wrote to the effect that I didn't care if there were bloggers here.  And I don't.  But that's not the same as saying that we don't want bloggers either.  We're neutral.  We have the site, it's free to use. We hope you enjoy the site.  All we ask is that you treat the admins with a basic level of respect and most of all, do not treat us as servants. 

Think of JoeUser as a big party.  It's an expensive party but that's not the issue until someone starts acting like their presence on the site is somehow helping "pay" for the party. 

But like real world parties, guests can be asked to leave.  If someone is being disruptive to other users they'll be warned. If they don't heed that, they'll be asked to leave.  If they're really aggravating the admins, they'll be warned. If they persist, they'll be shown the door. And yes, if someone is on another site saying nasty vile things about the admins or site while at the same time making use of the blogs, we reserve the right to show them the door after giving them time to copy their stuff to use somewhere else. 

The specifics of the LW incident

LW was a prominent member of the site. One of my favorite bloggers. Her husband, Simon, had been on the site a long time as well. He was, to say the least, not one of our favorite bloggers.

Simon wrote a blog, the topic is irrelevant at this point because it's not related to what happened next.  I went on and made a fairly rude comment that was in the spirit of article (the article basically argued how stupid Americans were). 

One of the things that I try not to do is throw in people's faces failings/weaknesses/sensitive issues in an off-topic way.  LW, for instance, once was a member of the KKK. It annoyed me to no end to see people trot this out every time they were in a debate with her regardless of what it was. It was, in my opinion, a very low blow to do that. If they're discussing race relations, okay maybe. But throwing it into a discussion on religion or taxes is simply uncalled for.  So while I may be rude to people on occasion, I don't trot out what I know about people in order to discredit the person.  My rudeness is usually in attacking the message, not the messenger. I sometimes fail that distinction, I make a lot of posts, so it's all in the percentages.

Anyway, Simon responded in a way that really aggravated me by attempting to dismiss what I had to say by instructing me to go back to using JoeUser to peddle our products.  So I made clear: I am not above removing a blogger for pissing me off. 

Simon's next response essentially escalated the issue by telling me how i should run a business and other such things. Like what?

"And yes, despite this display of childishness I am still considering blogging here should the site ever start charging. Though your service of JU had better improve a thousand-fold if you want to keep your current clientele here." and "Get the knot out of your panties, quit squalling like a scalded brat, and address the argument. Or stay away, if it freaks you out. Either way, next time you want to stamp your feet and threaten, try remembering that you don't attract customers by trying to bully them."

Anyone reading this who thinks that we should put up with that should cut their losses now and leave. There are no circumstances where I would ever tolerate a user talking to me in this way on JoeUser. So if you're feeling like "big brother" is squashing your "free speech" rights by not allowing you to insult the admins in the most arrogant, nasty ways possible, then this place isn't the place for you.  I'm very comfortable with the line being drawn here. 

Some people would feel what he wrote was perfectly okay and that's their right to think so but it won't fly on JoeUser.  I won't put up with it so I'm entirely fine with people who think that kind of behavior as being acceptable leaving.  Incidentally, the entirety of what he was responding to was "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves.  You can be "confident" about that."  That was what I said that resulted in what he wrote.

I could have responded very harshly since I know Simon and LW's personal circumstances.  It was very tempting to do so.  But I didn't.  Instead, I removed him from the site.

LW, as his wife, decided to leave with him.  While that was sad, I could understand it.  My wife would do the same for me.  Over the weekend I moved him from Exiled to PermBanned. This had the side-effect of doing the same to LW (which wasn't the intention) since PermBans take IP addresses used into account. They have the same IPs, so bam. A weird scenario where a user of normal access is also banned (hey a JU first).

This is where the facts end and from here we get into speculation.

However, given how long JU has been around and how consistent I think things have been run over the years, there was nothing in their previous experience that would have led them to think I was bluffing.  That I would back down.  So in essence, Simon chose to get himself kicked off, probably knowing that his wife, who spent years building something here, would follow suit. 

I'm not even sure they realize (or admit anyway) that Simon's behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable even though people in the past have been exiled for doing much the same thing. 

People rarely get exiled. But at the same time, we won't take abuse from users. A user will get a warning if they're trotting over the line. But after that, they're gone.  We also exiled Furry Canary as well for much the same thing. 

Cleaning house

With the upheaval, we looked at this as an opportunity to clean house a bit.  Cliques form and they drive people away.  I'm not happy to see LW go. I enjoyed her writing even if she was a toxic user. She drove other people away through bullying and domination. Or she played people to get them so riled up that they would get themselves exiled by going way over the line. I remember one person emailing me with a certain level of half-admiration/half-loathing in the way LW could drive others of the edge.  Anyone remember Dabe?

What has saddened me about the LW situatoin is how quickly friendship turns into demands for submission.  We don't make demands on users other than to not abuse us. We want people to have a good time. If staying makes them happy, then good.  If leaving makes them happy, then good.  I was saddened to see that LW took her voluntary exile as an opportunity to try to play the role of some sort of rebel leader against "the man" and labeling me as the  "king of petulance". For what? Because I got rid of her husband for repeatedly insulting me, name calling me, etc. on my own site that I share with him free of charge? Shame on me I guess.

I've also taken this opportunity to show another blogger the door after they were going around on other sites saying that JoeUser is akin to "Hitler's Germany" (which would make me Hiitler in this analogy). We have given them 10 days to copy their contents so that they can move them but simply put, the "Reich" doesn't way to pay to host their blog.  If someone thinks JU is so bad that it can be compared to Nazi Germany, then why would they want to have a blog here?

What makes JoeUser different from a blogspot or whatever is that it's a blog community. Our blogs are interconnected. It's a site designed in a way such that lots of people will read what you write.  We want people to have a good time here.  But WE also want to have a good time here too. It's no fun when you come onto the site and there's a handful of people sucking out the fun for us as well as plenty of other people.

As interesting as melodrama is, it's taxing. It sucks up energy.  I respect LW's decision to leave. I understand it. I will miss her writings. I liked her articles a lot. But I'm not going to miss the melodrama or the polarizing nature of her presence.  I'm almost not going to miss the clique-building.  And I'm not going to miss people who think it's okay to come over to someone's site and crap on the people who running it.

The site isn't about us. It's about the people who make blogs. Who share their writings. Who share their thoughts. It's what makes JoeUser special.  When people start excessively focusing on individual members of the site, we're all poorer for it. 

This situation will rise again. There will be more Wisefawns, Little Whips, Sir Peter Maxwells and other colorful characters who shine twice as bright in their time but eventually self-destruct. It will keep happening over and over again.  It'll pass.  Some people will leave in protest and new people will join. 


Comments (Page 6)
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on Mar 10, 2006
I keep coming back for more. It's like what makes Jerry Springer and Howard Stern popular. You can't turn away. I'm still gonna go play some more Gal Civ II.
on Mar 10, 2006

Question: I thought I read a post by T-man (it might have been another admin) where you delete an article, and the points are subtracted. is that true? Just curious.

They're supposed to but they're not. We have the recalc stuff disabled to safe DB bandwidth.

on Mar 11, 2006
you have every right to avoid reading bakerstreet's stuff, but you risk doing yourself a serious disservice should you choose to do so (in my opinion, this holds true whether you agree with him or find his his every opinin the polar opposite of yours).
I second that!

What is JU?
It's basically conservative, yet gives space to the liberal view, which is as rule trashed, but that's democracy and surely not Hitler's Germany.

LW was using this site to advertise her new site
I wonder how long the new site will put up with her caustic manner?
on Mar 11, 2006

I wonder how long the new site will put up with her caustic manner?

Probably indefinitely since most blog sites are isolated from one another.

on Mar 11, 2006
a new dominant couple to fill in the openings. Any suggestions?


Hillary and Bill.
Seriously, I am sorry you are leaving. But you are being exiled, not banned, so you can come back. I would suggest 2 things.

Nice, light touch--fatherly--but it won't do any good.
Freedom of Speech does NOT apply to online forums.
I don't feel freedom of speech is threatened. Even rather outrageous profanity is tolerated here.
on Mar 11, 2006
Every time you cut down the tallest tree in a forest, all it does is reveal the next tallest tree.

If that's truly to be your method of crowd control, then burn the whole forest now. *THAT* is moving on.
on Mar 11, 2006

Nice, light touch--fatherly--but it won't do any good.

Fathers never learn that.

on Mar 12, 2006
#77 by Draginol
Friday, March 10, 2006


Question: I thought I read a post by T-man (it might have been another admin) where you delete an article, and the points are subtracted. is that true? Just curious.

They're supposed to but they're not. We have the recalc stuff disabled to safe DB bandwidth.

I recently deleted comments because they came in triple posts and that lost me points, and I lost points when I deleted some articles, when did the recalc stuff get disabled?
on Mar 13, 2006
If I can still blog here, then any fool can do it. And with my best in-print Lily Tomlin impersonation -- "And that's the truth *pbbbbbbt*"
on Mar 13, 2006
...drama...
on Mar 13, 2006
I find it hard to believe this sillyness is still active.



Damn! I sowre I wouldn't comment on this this silly thread!
on Mar 14, 2006
Good things JU has these articles, or I'd be permanently out of the loop.

For the record, it is possible to come out of exile, and even to then have a positive coexistance with the admins. I should know; I've done it.

It's too bad LW left... she was quite a character.

Dan
on Mar 14, 2006
JoeUser is obviously a feudalist monarchy.


I thought we were an autonomous collective.
on Mar 14, 2006
Draginol, What I couldn't figure out abou this whole "drama" is why LW's husband would want to stay someplace that clearly wasn't for him. JoeUser is not a right, it's a privilege. I can see that, and I don't think it's too much to ask for to request a little civility. Personally, I disagree with pretty much everything you write, but it's plain disrespectful to treat the "owner of the house" poorly. I try and teach my kids that you can disagree with respect, and still be able to coexist peacefully. A little respect and dignity (for self and others) goes a long way. Also, anyone using the Hitler comparison is showing precious little understanding of Hitler, and it goes a long way toward demeaning the suffering that the Nazi party caused. Shalom.
on Mar 14, 2006
I thought we were an autonomous collective.


We will assimilate you.
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