Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The names change, the characters stay the same
Published on March 8, 2006 By Draginol In Blogging

Every community, especially one as close-knit as JU's is going to have melodrama. 

Sometimes, it's like watching a car wreck. You don't want to look but it's hard not to. Drama, intrigue, gossip, they're hard to resist.

I tend to be a pretty plain person.  I think that's why I've stayed interested in on-line communities for so long or at least survived them this long.  Being straight forward and consistent is, in my opinion, the key to thriving long-term in an on-line community.  The flame that burns twice as bright lasts half as long as they say.

What I'm going to discuss next is going to relate to a recent melodrama. But the words will remain applicable into the future because what has gone on recently will happen again and again and again. The actors will change but the characters remain the same.

1) What is and isn't out of bounds on JoeUser?

Your blog is your blog. You are free to write about anything you'd like as long as it does not contain the name of a person in the title and isn't essentially a personal attack on another member of the site.

However, IF you choose "Display this article in the forums as well" then it enters the purvue of moderation. This option is on by default. If you want to vent about something, that's fine. But as soon as it goes onto the global forum network, which is syndicated all over, then we care what is on that blog. It's the classic "your rights end where someone else's begins".

2) JoeUser is not a for profit site. It's open to the public to use but the admins aren't your servants.

This is something we're particularly sensitive about.  In a recent post I wrote to the effect that I didn't care if there were bloggers here.  And I don't.  But that's not the same as saying that we don't want bloggers either.  We're neutral.  We have the site, it's free to use. We hope you enjoy the site.  All we ask is that you treat the admins with a basic level of respect and most of all, do not treat us as servants. 

Think of JoeUser as a big party.  It's an expensive party but that's not the issue until someone starts acting like their presence on the site is somehow helping "pay" for the party. 

But like real world parties, guests can be asked to leave.  If someone is being disruptive to other users they'll be warned. If they don't heed that, they'll be asked to leave.  If they're really aggravating the admins, they'll be warned. If they persist, they'll be shown the door. And yes, if someone is on another site saying nasty vile things about the admins or site while at the same time making use of the blogs, we reserve the right to show them the door after giving them time to copy their stuff to use somewhere else. 

The specifics of the LW incident

LW was a prominent member of the site. One of my favorite bloggers. Her husband, Simon, had been on the site a long time as well. He was, to say the least, not one of our favorite bloggers.

Simon wrote a blog, the topic is irrelevant at this point because it's not related to what happened next.  I went on and made a fairly rude comment that was in the spirit of article (the article basically argued how stupid Americans were). 

One of the things that I try not to do is throw in people's faces failings/weaknesses/sensitive issues in an off-topic way.  LW, for instance, once was a member of the KKK. It annoyed me to no end to see people trot this out every time they were in a debate with her regardless of what it was. It was, in my opinion, a very low blow to do that. If they're discussing race relations, okay maybe. But throwing it into a discussion on religion or taxes is simply uncalled for.  So while I may be rude to people on occasion, I don't trot out what I know about people in order to discredit the person.  My rudeness is usually in attacking the message, not the messenger. I sometimes fail that distinction, I make a lot of posts, so it's all in the percentages.

Anyway, Simon responded in a way that really aggravated me by attempting to dismiss what I had to say by instructing me to go back to using JoeUser to peddle our products.  So I made clear: I am not above removing a blogger for pissing me off. 

Simon's next response essentially escalated the issue by telling me how i should run a business and other such things. Like what?

"And yes, despite this display of childishness I am still considering blogging here should the site ever start charging. Though your service of JU had better improve a thousand-fold if you want to keep your current clientele here." and "Get the knot out of your panties, quit squalling like a scalded brat, and address the argument. Or stay away, if it freaks you out. Either way, next time you want to stamp your feet and threaten, try remembering that you don't attract customers by trying to bully them."

Anyone reading this who thinks that we should put up with that should cut their losses now and leave. There are no circumstances where I would ever tolerate a user talking to me in this way on JoeUser. So if you're feeling like "big brother" is squashing your "free speech" rights by not allowing you to insult the admins in the most arrogant, nasty ways possible, then this place isn't the place for you.  I'm very comfortable with the line being drawn here. 

Some people would feel what he wrote was perfectly okay and that's their right to think so but it won't fly on JoeUser.  I won't put up with it so I'm entirely fine with people who think that kind of behavior as being acceptable leaving.  Incidentally, the entirety of what he was responding to was "I'm not above making blogs or users disappear from public view simply because they got on my nerves.  You can be "confident" about that."  That was what I said that resulted in what he wrote.

I could have responded very harshly since I know Simon and LW's personal circumstances.  It was very tempting to do so.  But I didn't.  Instead, I removed him from the site.

LW, as his wife, decided to leave with him.  While that was sad, I could understand it.  My wife would do the same for me.  Over the weekend I moved him from Exiled to PermBanned. This had the side-effect of doing the same to LW (which wasn't the intention) since PermBans take IP addresses used into account. They have the same IPs, so bam. A weird scenario where a user of normal access is also banned (hey a JU first).

This is where the facts end and from here we get into speculation.

However, given how long JU has been around and how consistent I think things have been run over the years, there was nothing in their previous experience that would have led them to think I was bluffing.  That I would back down.  So in essence, Simon chose to get himself kicked off, probably knowing that his wife, who spent years building something here, would follow suit. 

I'm not even sure they realize (or admit anyway) that Simon's behavior was totally out of line and unacceptable even though people in the past have been exiled for doing much the same thing. 

People rarely get exiled. But at the same time, we won't take abuse from users. A user will get a warning if they're trotting over the line. But after that, they're gone.  We also exiled Furry Canary as well for much the same thing. 

Cleaning house

With the upheaval, we looked at this as an opportunity to clean house a bit.  Cliques form and they drive people away.  I'm not happy to see LW go. I enjoyed her writing even if she was a toxic user. She drove other people away through bullying and domination. Or she played people to get them so riled up that they would get themselves exiled by going way over the line. I remember one person emailing me with a certain level of half-admiration/half-loathing in the way LW could drive others of the edge.  Anyone remember Dabe?

What has saddened me about the LW situatoin is how quickly friendship turns into demands for submission.  We don't make demands on users other than to not abuse us. We want people to have a good time. If staying makes them happy, then good.  If leaving makes them happy, then good.  I was saddened to see that LW took her voluntary exile as an opportunity to try to play the role of some sort of rebel leader against "the man" and labeling me as the  "king of petulance". For what? Because I got rid of her husband for repeatedly insulting me, name calling me, etc. on my own site that I share with him free of charge? Shame on me I guess.

I've also taken this opportunity to show another blogger the door after they were going around on other sites saying that JoeUser is akin to "Hitler's Germany" (which would make me Hiitler in this analogy). We have given them 10 days to copy their contents so that they can move them but simply put, the "Reich" doesn't way to pay to host their blog.  If someone thinks JU is so bad that it can be compared to Nazi Germany, then why would they want to have a blog here?

What makes JoeUser different from a blogspot or whatever is that it's a blog community. Our blogs are interconnected. It's a site designed in a way such that lots of people will read what you write.  We want people to have a good time here.  But WE also want to have a good time here too. It's no fun when you come onto the site and there's a handful of people sucking out the fun for us as well as plenty of other people.

As interesting as melodrama is, it's taxing. It sucks up energy.  I respect LW's decision to leave. I understand it. I will miss her writings. I liked her articles a lot. But I'm not going to miss the melodrama or the polarizing nature of her presence.  I'm almost not going to miss the clique-building.  And I'm not going to miss people who think it's okay to come over to someone's site and crap on the people who running it.

The site isn't about us. It's about the people who make blogs. Who share their writings. Who share their thoughts. It's what makes JoeUser special.  When people start excessively focusing on individual members of the site, we're all poorer for it. 

This situation will rise again. There will be more Wisefawns, Little Whips, Sir Peter Maxwells and other colorful characters who shine twice as bright in their time but eventually self-destruct. It will keep happening over and over again.  It'll pass.  Some people will leave in protest and new people will join. 


Comments (Page 5)
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on Mar 09, 2006
Wow, never thought there was so much anger on this site. I myself was caught up in a situation that someone felt I should have been punished in someday for breaking on of the rule I was unaware existed because of my ignorance to the rules of the site. I hardly ever read the rules cause I have always felt they are all similar and what would be the chances of me breaking one. Well none of the Admins ever came to me about it, even when it was announced, so I don't really know the end of it. I'm still here so maybe my admittance to ignorance of the rules and apology saved my butt.

I didn't know much about the recent incident till I found this article today. I don't have a lot of time to spend on this site so I can only read so many articles, which is how I got confused when GCII was out for sale and the forums were running slow.

I have to say that no matter what the rules say the owner of a site has paramount power over it and the people in it, specially when the site is free. I do believe that no matter how rude, snotty, ignorant, stupid and/or childish Brad could be (not that he is any of these, just an example), it is still his site and he can do as he pleases and you don't have to stay here.

Honestly I don't even know why you, Brad, took the time to explain this to anyone, this should be obvious even to those who are tech-ignorant. Hell, if I were in your place my modo would be " I am lion, hear me roar".

I am sad in a way to see LW leave, she was a very interesting person. But life goes on and I do not depend on those who leave or who were given the boot, there will always be others. Don't have much to say about Helen except that she should have just taken her 10 days and done what she had to do regardless of this article. Every time she post only shows the article being true. Why would I feel the need to defend myself on a site that I am not wanted is beyond me. I do have to agree that talking bad about a site on another site is wrong and reprocations should have been expected and not a surprise.

Like I said once, freedom of speech is not free of consequences. For every action there's a reaction. To expect anything less is to truly be ignorant.

I applaud Brad for being the Lion in his jungle that he so graciously allows us to hang around in free of charge. (Suck up )
on Mar 09, 2006
You know... if Hitler ever had his own website, I'd bet that he'd ban a lot of people.
on Mar 09, 2006
ok...point taken...*poof*
on Mar 09, 2006
if Hitler ever had his own website, I'd bet that he'd ban a lot of people.


Nope...he'd probably invite them in, and have dissidents hunted down and shot.

The "Hitler" comments were WAAAAAAYYYY over the top, I agree.
on Mar 09, 2006

You think an announcement was necessary?

It's not about you, Marcie.  It's about letting people know what the boundaries are.

People need to know what is and isn't off-limits.  To most people, I think that's common sense.  But given that both you and your boyfriend don't see what the big deal is with comparing this site to Nazi Germany and me to Hitler while all the time making use of the free resources it provides proves the point that people need to be told in no uncertain terms what is out of bounds.

It seems no matter how many times I use the "it's like a party" analogy there will be someone who likens the site to a government or some other absurd thing.

JoeUser is a free site where people can come on and have a good time. And as long as you don't badmouth or attack the host or other guests, you're fine. 

Since you and at least one other person don't understand that it's not cool to go around calling someone Hitler and then go over to their house (so to speak) to play a post like this is therefore necessary.

on Mar 09, 2006


shhhhhh .... for all of you who believe this is nazi germany. I found a hole in the fence .... be quiet .... I'll distract hitler and all the SS soldiers while you sneak out to freedom ..... No, don't say goodbye ... this place is evil and you want to escape, why would you want to say goodbye .... what you have to tell hitler how horrible he is before you go ... well, okay ...

LOL  You need an insightful" for that.

on Mar 09, 2006
Such melodrama on a thread about leaving the melodrama behind.


Yea, but it makes for a good Soap Opera!
on Mar 09, 2006
The melodrama is continued by these kinds of articles. All that was necessary was an email saying "hey bitch, you're through". Not a "Hey JU...I'm kicking Marcie out! Do you wanna say 'to hell with her' too?" post. Because that's what this article is.


marcie, I defended you when everyone else wanted your head on a platter. I saw a work in the making. Then you ran afoul of LW. And I do think you got sucker punched there as she just out finagled you, but you both were guilty.

But then you made up with LW, and you continue to bite the hand that fed you, notably Kharma. LW and I had our differences, but I never dragged any admin into it. You just seem to be a magnet and have to draw admins into it.

Seriously, I am sorry you are leaving. But you are being exiled, not banned, so you can come back. I would suggest 2 things.

1. Grow up. Life is not fair, and only children think it is. Learn to roll with the punches.

2. Dont take your frustration out with other bloggers on the admins.

If you do those 2 things, you will go far, not only in the cyberworld, but in the real world.
on Mar 09, 2006
Freedom of Speech does NOT apply to online forums.


just look at du.org for a confirmation of that law!
on Mar 09, 2006
You know... if Hitler ever had his own website, I'd bet that he'd ban a lot of people.


No, track them down by IP and bake them in the ovens!
on Mar 09, 2006
LOL You need an insightful" for that.


Can she get 2?
on Mar 09, 2006

Update: I removed Marcie's name from the article since who the person is is largely irrelevant.  

When all this dies down, I'll lock the thread so that there are no comments to be seen.

on Mar 09, 2006
wow... that was an amusing 25 minutes. I must say that I find it hard to believe that people have any question about the rules that have been set in place. Being part of a blog community subjects you to others opinions of you whether they are accurate or not. But, you agree to that when you join.
on Mar 10, 2006
Oh well, I guess we'll be needed a new teacher and a new dominant couple to fill in the openings. Any suggestions?
on Mar 10, 2006
Question:  I thought I read a post by T-man (it might have been another admin) where you delete an article, and the points are subtracted.  is that true?  Just curious.
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