Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The weather improves...
Published on May 21, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

The GalCiv II team keeps working on new updates. But more and more of that coding is occurring during the spare time of the developers.  For example, I'm only budgeted to work on the game a few hours per week at this point. In effect, most of my time working on the game is during my nights and weekends.

On every Stardock game for the past several years, my job has been to manage the overall project and then come in near the end to go hard core on the parts of the game that need the most work or that I'm specialized on.  Computer AI has been my programming specialty for the last decade or so.  As a result, I typically only do serious coding on a given project during the last few months. 

Once the game is starting to come together into something that can be played as opposed to being a technology, I move from managing the project to actively programming on it. I would also fill in the gaps that our project design document didn't assign out.  On GalCiv II, for instance, I came in and wrote up most of the technology descriptions, a good chunk of the alien conversations, the ship components, planetary improvements, and much of the "data" parts.  I also wrote most of the AI for GalCiv II (except for the diplomacy screen logic which was cobbled together by eveyone and the planetary surface/improvement backend for picking out what gets built on planets).  The economics and tons of gameplay tweaks I also code on.

After the game ships, I get involved in pieces here and there. I'm like an older, uglier (but better spelling/grammar <ducks>) version of Boogiebac where I look at what I think needs to be tweaked in text or in code and does what needs to be done with a heavy bias towards AI and economics.

But at this point, it's on weekends.  There's a LOT of stuff that I have to do during the day.  Running a company is a full-time job unto itself as you might imagine.  And the 3/4ths of our business that isn't games (like Object Desktop) is getting ready for next year's release of Windows Vista.

Like many gamers and modders out there, I enjoy doing this stuff.  I like reading the forums (most of the time) and playing the game. I get ideas or spot stupid AI things and then go in and try to figure out why it did something stupid or how I can make it better.

For instance, tonight I changed the starting position code a bit so that there tends to be a bit more space between players. I also tried to improve the planetary improvemenet handling.  The original coding for planet surface stuff is expertly written but it's not my code and I have a hard time following some of it. It's also different from how I would have written it so I do my best to update it to try to be "Smarter" based on playing the game and reading posts.  I think I've gotten it so that it won't build a gagillion embassies or entertainment centers. The cause seems to be that those two types of buildings were not defined and as a result there was no limit on how many of that "kind" of building could be made. It was pretty deep in there so it took some doing. 

I also put in more code to make different players play more differently in terms of what they research, how aggressive they are, and numerous other things.  Another thing I did was change the way the AI handles bribes/gifts so that players won't necessarily (easily) just give it a bunch of goodies, crank relations up to close and ally. 

One area I think was significant improved but we'll have to wait until more players get their hands on it is in terms of strategic gameplay.  The AI tends to focus on sectors to conquer (much like a human would) but it woudl tend to focus on too many sectors still and its forces would never be focused enough to overwhelm an expert human player who was focusing their resources.

A challenge that will take more time to deal with is that the computer players have reached the level where they are plenty tough for me.  That is, unless I'm playing on a very specific setting or playing with a very specific style, the AI at higher than tough difficulties will cream me.  My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program? The AI doesn't "care" whether it loses. So if you figure out that you can some starbase/resource/ship combo or find some diplomacy trick to "Win" then knock yourself out.  But I won't be spending my summer weekends trying to "fix" something like that.

After 1.2, the update path starts to slow a little as we move towards expansion packs. There will be a 1.3 still but the development team (even now) is working on this stuff in their spare time too.  When you see a post from one of us on the weekend, don't think we're getting paid to do that.   We do it because we love the game and love you guys.  We love the community.   At the same time, I hope people realize that it is the good will and encouragement from that community that keeps these incredible updates going. 

Sometimes I see things on the forums or in email (particularly Cari's email) that are incredibly rude and come across with such an attitude of entitlement that it can really take the wind out of ones sails.  When someone makes a post like "X MUST be fixed" (where X is some trivial issue that few people care about) or a post that makes outright demands (as opposed to requests) on what "MUST" be in 1.2 or 1.3 that sort of thing is pretty grating.  I know seeing some guy on the forum saying how the "AI sucks" doesn't make me inclined to spend a sunny weekend working on it.  I mean, heck, I've been making games for 15 or so years now. And I've been playing them longer than that.  I have a decent idea of what is "good" and what is "bad".  No game is perfect. But we left "good enough" a long time ago. Someone listing out a spelling error or some UI thing they don't like or some goof one of the AI players makes on occasion is not something that "must" be fixed out of some sense of quality control.  This isn't WoW where people are paying $15 a month and hence one expects continous updates. We keep updating it because - like I said - we love the game and we love the community.  It's a labor of enjoyment/love.   We're not looking for adoration, just respect and decency.

The betas of 1.2 should still show up sometime this month. The main features of 1.2 can be listed as:

  1. UI to choose mods (such as total conversion mods)
  2. Sample mod
  3. Significant UI improvements
  4. Some AI fixes/enhancements
  5. Memory optimization
  6. New Combat system (ships fire at the same time)

I am thinking of putting in a request so that the attacker gets a 25% attack advantage for that first round so that there is still an advantage in being the attacker.

For 1.3, it'll be fairly modest tweaks and improvements.  After that, the team will be working on the expansion pack.  The art team is currently split between making cut-scenes for the expansion pack and making ship-content for an $8.95 ship component pack.  The idea is to be able to lower the cost of the expansion pack a bit.  People (like me) who love having cool looking hulls and ship parts can get those (And I've seen some early stuff, it's far better than what's in the game, the art team has really mastered how to do this stuff). And the people who don't care about the ship design stuff can skip that if they want.


Comments (Page 2)
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on May 21, 2006
But, I do have one little pet peeve.


Please, for 1.12, if you would be so kind, if it's not too much trouble...


Please, please make getting the Precursor Library easier to get. I (most of us) have yet to see one.
And I want to see one. Well, at least one.
on May 21, 2006
Please, please make getting the Precursor Library easier to get. I (most of us) have yet to see one.
And I want to see one. Well, at least one.


I'll take this Brad..

You Get ONE and only ONE....
on May 22, 2006
Thank you for such a wonderful game!

I would like to see somewhere an official site for mods, with a player input based rating system, and comments section to describe them... that way the devs can get a break and the game can continue to grow for years!

on May 22, 2006
Just so I can get one. Never have as it is, so that one would be kinda nice.
on May 22, 2006
All the extra work by everyone at Stardock needs to be commended.. as for summer, well if you are staying in MIchigan for it, be prepared for humidity @ 90% for a good portion of it (good time to really work on that expansion /wink)

As for the updates, from what we have read they will deffinately add functionality and some new depth, especially the combat and your aforementioned focused agression tweaks.

speaking of combat.. one of the way's i adjusted the disparity of attacker weapons-heavy overkill was simply to triple all ships base HP, although the AI *seemed* to value the smaller ship sizes a bit more in doing so, the over all effect helped as the attacker was less likely to kill off the defenders fleet in one salvo, and it made the huge type ships truely seem.. well.. huge. with that being said, the automatic return fire in 1.2 should make / force folks to consider defenses more as well.
on May 22, 2006
Thanks Frogboy:

I think I've gotten it so that it won't build a gagillion embassies or entertainment centers. The cause seems to be that those two types of buildings were not defined and as a result there was no limit on how many of that "kind" of building could be made. It was pretty deep in there so it took some doing.]/quote]



My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program?


Thanks for the hard work. That should make the AI more competitive.

Maybe the expereince of battling the AI is related to the map size.

Have you considered that most of your games have been on the smaller or medium maps with only a few opponents. That makes for a manageble evening game and seems to be , understandably the game you have played most of because of time.

But many of us Galciv2 addicts are now playing games more epic in scope on large or huge or gigantic maps. I have been playing on large maps, but I am going to try those more epic sized maps. MAybe the Maso AI is easier on larger maps or just different.

My current Maso game the AI is quite competitive on production but not very aggressive in attacking.

Perhaps you could try them or look at the posts for those maps to see how the AI reacts differently there.

Can't wait for the beta!
on May 22, 2006
Thanks for all the fish. It has to be a labor of love. There will always be unforseen problems, unexpected consequences from any fix. There is no way to test the game on all map sizes, all difficulties, all the different options (tech trading on/off, lots of planets, few planets, lots of races, 5 races, 3 races. There are just too many permutations to look at and keep humans in the loop. Weird stuff, even really weird stuff will still show up with 1.2, but it is expected, not unexpected. So kudos for the all the hard work.


on May 22, 2006
Amen to the comments about "good enough." I get so frustrated when playing other (major) games coming out these days all fail to meet the high standards of polish that an indie game like GC 2 establish. And it is even stranger to see people on these forums ranting about this and that minor feature that isn't perfected or up to their lofty standards. Those people either need to get used to the idea that no game can be perfect or just try and organize(and finance) their own perfect game and see how far they get. Not very far, I bet.
on May 22, 2006
Well, folks, I enjoy playing GalCiv2. I'm glad Stardock put it out. Slim pickens otherwise. So, since you're feeling a little unloved, Brad, Thank You! For myself, I see little need for further updates. The game seems complete to me. Updates are your form of 'copy protection', so maybe there's a little need. I wouldn't know. I think we've all been in forums long enough to know that online communities sometimes get overwrought and posters sometimes get a little full of themselves. Tone is just tone, after all. Somebody had to be raised in a barn, right?
on May 22, 2006
+1 to an attack advantage, though I'd say do not allow it for planets.

As for the cut-scenes or ship hulls idea- honestly, I wouldn't be interested in either one. Cut-scenes tend to get skipped after the first time you see them, and ship hulls don't really add anything to the gameplay, which is the area I want improved in the expansion (though gameplay and AI are certainly great as is, and I definitely feel I got more then my money's worth)

I'd rather see more buildings and more options for ships. Stuff like espionage, the healing/draining ships from GC1.

One thing I'd really, REALLY like you to add- political events similar to EU2.

on May 22, 2006
Well I'm winning on Crippling with not to much difficulty, actually the most difficult part is the start, before I catch up.

The parts of the game where AI is the worst are:
-diplomacy and tech trading: good trade makes human come on top especially, if there are many AIs with diverse technology they don't share with each, also AI like to buy what you would consider obsolete tech, espeically as seperate deals, also they don't value more techs that give ability to skip several other techs, for example I could buy Phasor2 cheaper then Phasor1, which I also didn't have, nor they have concept of need, for example why would they ever need obsolete weapon tech, or even weak weapon tech of different type they are not specialized in, if it would still not do good against they enemies (sill better do use Phasors, even if enemy has weak shields, they buy MiniBalls1), or why would they need life support tech, if they can already reach every place they need
-planetary imporovement: nothing new to say here, exempt that some AIs are worse then others, also I noticed that some of them build farms on small class planets like 3 to 5, which makes no sense, farms should onlt be built when close to the cap, or that they built superprojects on bonus tiles
-AI not being able to grasp some base game rules: like that attack is better then defense (especially in 1.11 and before), or that it's better to strike with defending ships then to wait in orbit without Orbit Manager (never understood this one)

So I don't think I ever exploited anything (exempt cheesy diplo/gift gambit once, but got borded and turned off diplo/win), I only played with common sense, so AI needs to be reprogrammed to "have more of it" (like better handling of tech trades and attack/defense/planet vs open space combat).
on May 22, 2006
Brad, you and your team do great work and it is obvious to anyone with a brain that Stardock as a whole goes way above and beyond the call of duty. The support that everyone at Stardock provides, proves that the people involved care about the community more than making sales. I can tell you this is one company I trust and enjoy dealing with.

As far as people complaining and being rude, the discontent always seem to be the loudest even when they are in the minority. I'm sure you know it is impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but I do believe that 99% of us are in awe and adoration of all Stardock has done and is willing to do for us. Nothing is or ever will be perfect, there will always be things that can be improved upon. So don't spend so much time improving things that you neglect your families and friends.

Once again I'd like to say thanks to Brad, CariElf, BoogieBac, T-Man, and the rest of the devs for all of their hard work and dedication. This game and community would not be as great as it is without you.
on May 22, 2006

as for summer, well if you are staying in MIchigan for it, be prepared for humidity @ 90% for a good portion of it (good time to really work on that expansion /wink)
Not in our part of MI.  Remember, MI is a pretty big state.  Besides, there are lots of beautiful lakes in MI to enjoy when it gets too hot.

No working this coming weekend (Memorial weekend)!  The weather is supposed to be beautiful.  You need to take time to rediscover baseball and bike riding.

 

on May 22, 2006

I'm taking that "spelling and grammar" comment straight to the hoops, Wardell

on May 22, 2006
My view is that anyone being 1.2 at anything higher than tough consistently is probably doing some sort of exploit at which point you just gotta decide whether you want to play a game or game the program? The AI doesn't "care" whether it loses. So if you figure out that you can some starbase/resource/ship combo or find some diplomacy trick to "Win" then knock yourself out. But I won't be spending my summer weekends trying to "fix" something like that.


Perhaps some are, or some will (since no one outside has 1.2 yet...), but there are (or were) game mechanics issues which as you well know hinder the AIs ability to provide the requisite challenge for some gamers. The most glaring of these really was the attacker shoots first bit, which the AI was completely unable to compensate for. You've changed the game mechanic to address that situation (and I hope that if you decide to give the attacker any kind of bonus you make it optional at start-up), you've caught some issues with the planetary builds which will hopefully clean up some of the AIs systems as well, so obviously you and your team are still the best.

But (you know there are buts...), that isn't to say you can make the game be everything for everyone, and it isn't to say that you even should try. Yet, there will still be AI issues which, in my opinion, are going to be related to game mechanics over any kind of cheese a player may develop. As you've commented on earlier, the issues with processor time and the ability for the AIs to look at all their reveled space (and how many steps into the fog as well) are in many ways a hard limit to how competent the AI can be. Yet this issue will continue to bedevil some players unless the AI is given some 'scripts' (for lack of a better word) to deal with this known limitation.

Perhaps the 1.2 changes address this adequately, perhaps not, we'll have to wait and see. However, as I've said time and time again, the choice to use an 'open' movement system really hamstrings the AI compared to a 'closed' system. Obviously there is more to the open system than just fleets, there are anomalies, star bases, influance, ..., and yet, for all that is gained, it seems to be rather cosmetic when you have to cut down to the bone, which more often than not in any GC2 game is going to be combat.

With that in mind I humbly ask that for future games (be they GC2 or other) you consider using a modified 'open' system. Something with either open movement, but hard choke points (ala SEIV), or something with only choke points (ala MOO3). On the other hand, if you are truely wedded to this 'open' movement scheme, then I hope that by the time of the next itteration (or hell, even 1.4+ for GC2) either processors are capeable of handleing what you would like to demand of them in a reasonable time, or that you create some wonderous code to otherwise resolve the issue.

And just for old times sake... Why can't the AI stack its transports with its invading fleets!!!!!
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