Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
How much is too much?
Published on September 7, 2006 By Draginol In Life

I've heard the term "conspicuous consumption" thrown around over the years but it's never properly defined.  Because I like to label everything, just ask my critics, I'll label it: Conspicious consumption is when a person has something that is greater than 4X in size or value of what the typical American has.

Let's play a game with that:

The typical American car now costs around $25,000.  A $100,000 car seems really over the the top to a lot of people.  The typical American new home is 2,500 square foot. A 10,000 square foot home seems ridiculous.  A typical wedding costs $10,000 day.  A $40,000 wedding seems excessive.  You get the idea.

Why is the 4X important in this discussion? That brings us to the second part -- the difference between the richest people and the middle class is determined almost purely by the amount of regulation there is in the economy.  The more the government regulates the economy, the less of a gap there is. The upside is that we can get endless reports of how the system is "fairer".  The downside is that the overall standard of living we all enjoy grows at a slower rate because the mega producers in the economy are disincented from doing what they do best. 

Right now, the economy is less regulated than it was 10 years ago so the gap is growing.  But in the United States, since Reagan the economy has been much less regulated which means the gap between the middle class and the richest 5% is pretty significant.  How significant?  According to the IRS the top 1% average over $1.1 million per year (pre-tax).  The next 4% average $210,000 per year. Leaving the average American household earning around $40,000 per year.

See the problem yet? If conspicuous consumption is spending 4X what the typical American has on something and the top 5% are earning 5X or more than the average American then you are going to have people who are merely spending the same ratio as everyone else on things behaving conspiciously.

So why is that a problem? Because the people who really get upset about conspicious consumption are usually the ones who make class wafare arguments or demand much higher taxes on that top 5%.

For example, one leftist blogger put it like this (from here):

I'm enough of a believer in CPI bias to want to say "real compensation for male nonsupervisory workers has stagnated since 1973"--I think it has grown, but only very slowly, and much less rapidly than productivity.

On the other hand, I'm enough of a touchy-feey sociology-lover to believe that a good chunk of the utility the rich derive from their conspicuous consumption is transferred to them from the poor: the happiness America's working poor and middle class derive from the compensation distribution--given their compensation, the compensation of the rich, and the lifestyles of the rich and famous--seems to me to be certainly less than that of their counterparts back in 1973.

Note the premise: That the wealth that the top 5% have is essentially stolen -- transffered to them -- from the poor.  That's right, the bottom half of the populatoin are the ones really generating that wealth and the top 5% are just taking it from them.  Which, to anyone with any understanding of the economy, is utter nonsense.  Anyone who thinks that economics is a zero-sum game is clueless.  Joe Rich Guy's wealth does not hurt Bob poor guy.

But if that's not explicit enough, he then writes:

"The easiest and most important thing the government can do to neutralize the adverse consequences of rising inequality is to make the tax system more progressive, not less. A reality-based government would react to growing pretax inequality by taxing the rich more, and subsidizing the poor more (through policies like the EITC) as well. "

This is a total perversion of what the founding fathers had in mind.  It is not the role of government to re-distribute wealth.  Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  Not only would such a policy be immoral in my view, it would be damaging to future generations.  As we enjoy our various luxuries today whether it be computers, the Internet, movies on demand, much higher quality housing per square foot and per cost, etc. one should ask oneself where those benefits came from. Who came up with it?  It doesn't take a historian to note that the biggest improvements in the way we live have come when taxation was relatively low.  People are much better at spending their own money than a government agency. 

The minute a person starts to think that there is something morally wrong with one guy having a big house or fancy car or private jet or whatever and another guy "only" having one TV -- and not HDTV and living in "only" a 1500 square foot house is the minute they've given up on the American dream.

Once you give up on the American dream, you might as well start thinking like that guy who followed up his post with:

I wrote that one reason that America's rich today live the expensive and ostentatious lifestyles they do (rather than spending much more money on charity, or philanthropy) is that it is a way of making other people feel small and unhappy...

Which is about as logical as saying that the motivation for a middle class person to buy a new home is to make homeless people feel small and unhappy. Class envy is a venomous thing in a free society. Let us hope that it never becomes too widespread. The citizens of Soviet Russia got a good taste of what happens when class envy takes over.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 08, 2006
Indeed, we all do it to some degree.

I am an enthusiastic believer in each person living according to their own moral standards, for the most part.

I'm not sure how you can judge other people's consumption, though, without questioning their right to pursue happiness in their own way.

Where, exactly do you draw the line between a free citizen's rightful pursuit of happiness, and conspicuous consumption?
on Sep 08, 2006

What's hard for me is when I see companies cutting salaries and benefits for their workers and then you see their executives getting millions of dollars in compensation and buying solid gold toilets. It does seem that the top guy is wealthy because of the sacrifices of all the little guys. Maybe right, maybe wrong but that is the perception.

While true that there are executives who are overpaid, they are such a tiny % of the top 5%.  They are the exception.

on Sep 08, 2006

I define conspicuous consumption as the willfull wasting of something for show that someone else desperatly needs. In my eyes it's really just that simple.

Except you don't define "wasting".  It's subjective.

If I make $50,000 and own a $150,000 home, that's probably fine right? If I make $100,000 and own a $300,000 home that's probably fine too.  What if I make $10,000,000? Would having a $30 million home be wasteful? And if so, why? 

on Sep 08, 2006
Where, exactly do you draw the line between a free citizen's rightful pursuit of happiness, and conspicuous consumption?


Again, I say...

I think you know what I mean- like pornography you maybe can't define it but you know it when you see it.


  
on Sep 08, 2006

Driving a 1 mile per gallon giant gas hog when something more reasonable would still get you from point A to point B just as well.

What car does that?  What about say an H2 that gets 12 miles per gallon but the person drives say 5,000 miles per year.  Who's wasteful? That guy or the guy who has a 40MPG car but is putting 25,000 on their car because of their commuting?

on Sep 08, 2006
So you believe that class envy leads to unrest?


I think class envy is a GOOD thing, if channelled properly, draginol. Class envy is essentially what motivates me to want to maxiimize my personal earnings potential. And that motivation is what drives a capitalist economy.

The key is, as you say, not allowing it to TAKE OVER. I want these things because I want the best for my family. But I want to earn them, because when I earn them, I appreciate their value. But if I become too complacent with my lot in life, I will never strive to the heights that I know I can reach. Does that make any sense?

(Actually, Gordon Gecko said it far better than I. But I digress...)
on Sep 08, 2006
What about say an H2 that gets 12 miles per gallon but the person drives say 5,000 miles per year. Who's wasteful? That guy or the guy who has a 40MPG car but is putting 25,000 on their car because of their commuting?


I would still say the guy in the H2. He could be driving the 40MPG for his 5,000 miles like the other guy. But of course that wouldn't work because how would the rest of us who see him on the road recognize him for all his great achievments?  
on Sep 08, 2006
I think class envy is a GOOD thing, if channelled properly, draginol. Class envy is essentially what motivates me to want to maxiimize my personal earnings potential. And that motivation is what drives a capitalist economy.


It's kinda interesting that when you look up the definition of envy: the desire for another's traits, status, abilities, station, or worldly goods. (wikipedia), it doesn't sound like a bad thing yet people take it as an insult. I don't see this necessarily as envy but more like seeing something you like and wanting it, except instead of a store shelf it's owned by a person. Example: Let's say you (Gid) have a state of the art, up to date, latest hardware Laptop and I come to visit you and fall in love with it. Would it be envy to go and get one just like it? What if I saw in at the same place you bought it and did not know you had one and bought it, would that be envy? Is there really that much of a difference?

I've always considered envy to be when a person wants something you like have but kinda dislike or even hate you cause you have it and they don't. There has to be some kind of malicious feeling behind it to be envy to me. Like I said I could like and want something you have and the fact that not everything is made just for one person I believe I have the right to have what you or anyone else has because that's why they make more than one.
on Sep 08, 2006

I would still say the guy in the H2. He could be driving the 40MPG for his 5,000 miles like the other guy. But of course that wouldn't work because how would the rest of us who see him on the road recognize him for all his great achievments?

Nonsense. People COULD live closer to work too. Nothing irritates me more than someone giving me a hard time about my car which only gets 16mpg but I only drive 6k miles a year. 

on Sep 08, 2006
I'm not arguing for laize-faire. I believe in a progressive income tax system because I think everyone has their threshold for "conspicuous consumption".


Okay. I wasn't sure. But I'm still not sure how much more progressive countries can go before their social problems go over the top. Welfare was created to keep the peasants from storming the capital. In most states a cut to taxes will have to be mirrored by a cut to spending, and that will probably be a cut to welfare spending. Where's the friction point between social upheaval and social stability? That's more or less what I'm talking about.

A perception amongst the general populace about a rise in conspicuous consumption is only going to exacerbate social tension.

Dr Guy: I'm not talking about classes in the caste or Marxist sense. I'm talking about income disparity and its harbinger, conspicuous consumption. A lack of feudal castes doesn't prevent social tension like in your TV show Veronica Mars. Note that neither group is born into a caste, and yet the difference in wealth has definite consequences. Real life isn't too different.

Nonsense. People COULD live closer to work too. Nothing irritates me more than someone giving me a hard time about my car which only gets 16mpg but I only drive 6k miles a year.


Really? I couldn't afford to live any closer to where I work. The rent would be nearly twice as much. So I live half an hour out and commute. If I lived in the city centre I wouldn't have to drive, sure. But it only costs 50 bucks a week for petrol, compared to $150 extra in rent if I lived in the centre.
on Sep 08, 2006

Okay. I wasn't sure. But I'm still not sure how much more progressive countries can go before their social problems go over the top. Welfare was created to keep the peasants from storming the capital. In most states a cut to taxes will have to be mirrored by a cut to spending, and that will probably be a cut to welfare spending. Where's the friction point between social upheaval and social stability? That's more or less what I'm talking about.

A perception amongst the general populace about a rise in conspicuous consumption is only going to exacerbate social tension.

What social tension are you talking about? There's no riots in the streets or anything remotely like that. I don't see social tension in the United States that could remotely justify increasing goodies to the parasitical class.

on Sep 08, 2006

Really? I couldn't afford to live any closer to where I work. The rent would be nearly twice as much. So I live half an hour out and commute. If I lived in the city centre I wouldn't have to drive, sure. But it only costs 50 bucks a week for petrol, compared to $150 extra in rent if I lived in the centre.

It's about priorities.  It costs you $50 a week in gas. I pay $50 a MONTH in gas (if that). So you would almost break even.

My view is that someone who is screaming about the environment (not you but you know the type) should not be sanctimonious about their hybrid if they're driving 25,000 miles a year.  I made a choice to live closer to work so I don't have to drive as much. And so I feel no guilt having a car that only gets 16 to 18 mpg.  I'm doing less harm to the environment than the guy driving 25k per year.

That was kind of what Bakerstreet was getting at -- a lot of the people who cry about conspicuous consumption are actually the ones leading the more wasteful lifestyles.

on Sep 08, 2006
I think immigration (both legal and illegal) will have a profound effect on perceived classes in the US. Many immigrants come from countries with definitive class boundaries. I just wonder if they have enough time to acclimate to prevalent (?) US thinking, or if the perception of the "have/have not's" will weaken the current system to the point of widespread violence. This would be an unfortunate by-product of our current immigration situation. It seems to me differences among people here are widening, not coming closer together.

I agree with what your saying Brad, but I feel the numbers of those that believe otherwise are increasing more rapidly as each day passes. Not trying to come off as an alarmist.
on Sep 08, 2006
What social tension are you talking about? There's no riots in the streets or anything remotely like that. I don't see social tension in the United States that could remotely justify increasing goodies to the parasitical class.


Sure there aren't now. But how much can you 'progress' taxation before it becomes a problem? I find the whole thing fascinating and I wish I understood the economics side better. I'm convinced there must be a point at which everything remains politically stable but the doers get the maximum possible reward. The problems are all in finding that point.

It's about priorities. It costs you $50 a week in gas. I pay $50 a MONTH in gas (if that). So you would almost break even.


Not even close. In a month I'd pay 200 bucks in petrol. If I lived in the inner city I'd pay $600 extra in rent per month. That's a $400 gap, and would eat up the vast majority of my paycheck (I pay about 100 a week at the moment in rent). Of course the real estate market where I live isn't typical but you can see where I'm coming from - it's not always an either/or situation. The environment is just going to have to deal with my inconspicuous consumption.

That was kind of what Bakerstreet was getting at -- a lot of the people who cry about conspicuous consumption are actually the ones leading the more wasteful lifestyles.


I don't disagree with that at all. The point is that the rich tend to go for conspicuous consumption, ie consumption that people can see.

If I've learnt one thing from wasting my time studying politics it's that, as a group, people only care about what's on the surface. Perception is absolutely everything, and because your 5k shiny car stands out more than that 50,000k/yr Pious you're going to get all the shit and none of the glory for saving the environment.

That's why handouts exist - to distract the surface dwellers with bread and circuses. If you don't keep the peasants distracted they start jumping to dumb conclusions.
on Sep 08, 2006
I don't know. I think if a person pays $300 for a friggin hair brush that would probably be conspicuous consumption. I just call it stupid.

What a person chooses to spend their money on is none of my business no matter how stupid or wasteful it may be. Perhaps people should spend more time concerned with thier own business and less (or none) on what other people are doing.

As for the original question in the title: conspicuous consumption in my opiion is defined as consuming more than is considered normal or what one actually needs i.e. waste.

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