Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
There is no easy way...
Published on September 28, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

When you're a game developer, life is easy. Make customers happy. That's pretty much the only thing you have control over.  Few (very few) developers are also their own publishers. And publishers have a very different set of criteria -- making sure the retailers are happy too which may involve contradictory approaches.

Stardock has one thing going for it that most publishers don't -- a mature and popular digital distribution network (TotalGaming.net on the game side). This has helped us keep some leverage. After all, who the heck is Stardock anyway? But because we sell millions of dollars a year in software via our own digital distribution network, we have alternatives.  That is why, for instance, WindowBlinds hasn't been at retail.  For years, various distributors have tried to make us do deals that would be bad for our customers and bad for us but very good for them.  Historically, distributors had all the clout along with the retailers so the developer/publisher pretty much had to accept whatever was offered.  But digital distribution gives us more options.  WindowBlinds, for example, sells more copies -- even today -- than Galactic Civilizations II.  And GalCiv II has sold very well. Well into the six figure range by the end of last June.  So you can imagine how well WindowBlinds sells and that's direct from Stardock.

This brings us to some of the things we want to do.

We want to lower the price of GalCiv II during the Christmas season. That probably sounds insane. But here's the thing, we want new players to feel like they're part of the rest of the community and hence be able to get Dark Avatar when it's available. And we don't want those users to be spending $70 at once.  As a gamer, I can deal with $40 to $50 at once and then $25 to $30 half a year or more later.  But expecting to put up $70 or more at once is too much for me. 

I know of a lot of cool games I've heard about via word of mouth over the years that I didn't end up buying because I wasn't willing to just get the base game when there was an expansion pack out.  Yes, I know I could just live with the regular game and get the expansion later. But I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way -- if I'm going to get a game, I'm going to get the whole thing.

So now we talk about where the retailers come in.  Retail shelf space is tight.  So one idea was to expand Dark Avatar even further. Put in MORE features than we have listed there. Make it not quite a sequel but far more than a typical expansion pack...

..and then, thanks to digital distribution release the upgrade as the expansion pack digitally so people who bought the original game could get the full new version of GalCiv II at a discount and make the retail version a compilation that includes it all in a single box.  This would make retailers happy and new users happy but it would mean dealying the expansion pack until after Christmas (we'd do an open beta this Fall so people who wanted to start playing it before Christmas could play, it would be "Beta" only in name really, no buggier than a 1.x beta has been which means, some bugs but nothing huge typically).

But doing so brings the question of what to call the new stand alone version? GalCiv II: Gold? GalCiv II: Dark Avatar? There is likely to be some confusion either way.  One of the benefits is that having an expansion pack and compilation version out at the same time would help sales at retail since that's when all the editiorial coverage and advertising would be taking place.  But again, the question returns - what to call the stand alone compilation vs. what to call the expansion pack.

So what got us thinking down this track in the first place? The CivFanatics.com contest. No single entry per se but reading through there just inspired us to want to come up wtih more features to put in. But at a certain point, the features become so long that they're almost a quasi-sequel being made with the same underlying game engine.

We'd love to hear your thoughts...


Comments (Page 2)
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on Sep 29, 2006
Dam I have a lot to say but not the time to type it. Short and sweet.

I won't but anything online because of STEAM.

I won't support a developer who forces the consumer to download any portion of there product.

Its not Stardocks fault. Its VALVes. If Stardock Central came before STEAM. people would have a greater acceptance of it. (because Stardock Central has NEVER given me the problems STEAM has.)

However if you release a Full Version with Expansion. I will rebuy the entire game again as long as I can walk up to an EB or GameStop and buy the game with cash.
on Sep 29, 2006
One thing that i haven't understood (due to my not perfect english) is if the expansion pack will be published later will it be available at retail or will be available a version which include gc2 and dark avatar, so the expansion only version will be available only digitally.

About the question aked by frogboy i must say that it would be surely better an enriched expansion with more feature relased later than an expansion with less features released earlier.
I like this game but I'm not part of the fancy people which would buy an expansion at 30 $ also if it contains only jewelry, and I think that DA was just well hyped , because espionage seems too much similar to Doomsday expansion of HoI2 which is not so funny, while planet types would be great but all this content doesn't justify 30$ without a manual,box and original cd, adding more feature so in my opinion would at least convince people like me which are no sure to buy the xp to take it also if it is released digitally.
on Sep 29, 2006
I should also add that if we're not getting DA until next year, I assume we'll be getting patch 1.4 before then, as there are still a few outstandign bugs & glitches that could do with being fixed (*cough* planet quality *cough*)
on Sep 29, 2006
I won't but anything online because of STEAM.

I won't support a developer who forces the consumer to download any portion of there product.

Its not Stardocks fault. Its VALVes.



Ehm well as Stardock apps don't ask to authenticate every damb time you use them, I don't see what the problem can be. Maybe you could look at in this light: by supporting an online dev/pulisher who does it right, you'll be encouraging better practice.

As I said in another thread, one thing I like about buying through Stardock central is that *all* the money goes to the guys who make the game.


on Sep 29, 2006
Well as someone who had pre-ordered the expansion pack i would say that having to wait until 2007 for it would not please me. That said if there was a public beta containing all the updates to 'X' point i would be happy.
To be brutally honest i have been playing the game now since it was released, and even though each update has brought new features to the game i do wonder if delaying the expansion until spring is a good thing to do. How long does the average player carry on playing one game? Will they wait for another 4+ months without cancelling their pre-order?

To keep most players going on the game you would need to at least release some kind of beta version with the new features in it, or you may find that a high proportion of your pre-orders and possible future sales have moved on from the game and Stardock.

Just my 0.02$

DG
on Sep 29, 2006
I wouldn't mind waiting a bit longer for a more full-featured offering. Having the beta to mess around with in the meantime would be nice, though.

GalCiv II: Gold?


Gold = old and busted

GalCiv II: Latinum Edition
on Sep 29, 2006
OR would they be okay with the expansion pack after Christmas as long as there was a beta program for those who pre-ordered it before Christmas?


I vote this option. I pre-ordered DA and would be very, very disappointed if there was nothing before xmas. However I would like the expansion to be the best/highest quality u can make it.

I would be a little concerned if I was u about missing the xmas period. Xmas is HUGE for computer games as u no doubt know. Many new games get released in the run up to xmas, so some GC2 players could move onto other games and not return until GC3 in 2009-10.
on Sep 29, 2006
Xmas is HUGE for computer games as u no doubt know. Many new games get released in the run up to xmas, so some GC2 players could move onto other games and not return until GC3 in 2009-10.


But when GC2 was released this February, there seemed to be some anecdotal evidence that it did well partly because it wasn't competing in the Xmas rush. Hardly anything else was being released, just as people were realising that their rushed, over-hyped unoriginal Xmas games weren't so interesting after all.

4X games dont sell so well to the teenie market that gets their games bought for them. GC2 seems to appeal more to people who buy their own. And I have a lot of other things to spend my time and money on than video games before/during Xmas, but much less so afterwards.
on Sep 29, 2006
Gold = old and busted

GalCiv II: Latinum Edition

This one definitely gets my vote! Who cares about gold anyway.
on Sep 29, 2006
Its not Stardocks fault. Its VALVes. If Stardock Central came before STEAM. people would have a greater acceptance of it. (because Stardock Central has NEVER given me the problems STEAM has.)


It did. TGN's predecessor, Drengin.net, was around well before STEAM. It's just that it really hasn't gotten as big or popular until this past year or two. But it's been there for a long time.

And we plan to have a disc-by-mail option for DA, so it's not download-only so much as direct-order only by the current plan.
on Sep 29, 2006
Brad-

First off, you're running into a time crunch. It's basically Oct., and that gives you about 1.5 months (6 weeks or so, especially with Thanksgiving thrown in) to put together something for shipment for the holidays. Unless you were already in Beta now for DA, the time frame doesn't seem feasible, and given your comments I don't think your heart's in that since you want to add features. So, here's my vote-

Throw a bit more development into patching/enhancing the current Gal Civ 2 line and release patch 1.4. This may or may not include some of the cool new features or ones from DA currently. Try and get this out the door and shipped to retail to replace the current box and drop the price (from $40 to $30 or $25). This way, current gamers can still get the patch, new gamers get an improved game, and it's cheaper and could reach more people without tons of development time. Everybody's happy. The name is somewhat irrelevant, although perhaps Platinum Edition or Enhanced Edition seems fine. This will also further stabilize DA after you synch back the changes.

Meanwhile, keep working on DA as planned. Release a beta testing in Dec. and keep working on it. Here's the big factor you need to be ready for- previews and reviews. A bit longer development time seems like a chance to increase advertisements and previews. Re-releasing Gal Civ 2 with an update patch for this fall won't cause people to re-review it, which is fine given the wonderful reviews already. However, if you release a half-baked, immature expansion and it gets poor reviews- ouch! A late Feb./early March release for an expansion seems like a reasonable timeframe, assuming you're ready for Beta testing this fall and responsive to feedback (like always).

The key to the expansion will be to address expectations. If somebody has already pre-ordered the game and expected to play it prior to Christmas, having a Beta in place will address unhappiness somewhat as well as adding additional features. It would also be good to inform people of your release plan once that's finalized (hopefully soon for everyone's sake).

One last thought- another main draw of buying Gal Civ 2 has been the lack of copy protection but also the lure of patches by registering. If you do release Gal Civ 2 w/ out expansions again and have no plans to continue to patch it, you'll be missing out on feedback from new gamers as well as not providing incentive to new people to buy it versus pirate it. Just a random side-effect, but one that should be factored in there.

Hope these thought help make Gal Civ 2 even better!
on Sep 29, 2006
off topic,,,i was curious to if ya'll are going to update the political machine...i've beaten all the candidate's in the game on both sides and could use some new challenges. also, if there is gonna be a new version, maybe balancing the field a little might help. maybe it's me, but the game seemed to have a republican slant to it, regardless of which side i was running on. i found it much easier to win as a republican. i was surprised @ no JFK or Ike or some other great historical figures. i would have liked to see the guy who most likely would have been president in 68 had it not been for being assasinated (RFK).

just curious...
on Sep 29, 2006
^
|
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Ummm... Perhaps the forums would be a better place for this? I think Brad wanted constructive criticism relating to ideas for the next expansion and the current game, not other ones.
on Sep 29, 2006
I would be more than happy with an open beta and a longer time period for development. I thought you guys were being Masochistic in doing all those high quality patches AND an expansion before xmas.

I think the quality of the patches and games so far is a combination of two factors 1) Your commitment to qualtiy 2) Your receptiveness to user ideas. Since this approach has served you so well, why not stick with it and go with another open beta?

I really can't think of any more features I would like other than
1) A Prettier Combat viewer
2) More control in the Council meetings. There is a potential for high space opera drama here by allowing people to field their own bills and form political factions

Also - although I don't know anything about the Espionage system and am very intrigued - I have found espionage in all other games to be either a) Underwhelming - just put all your spies on guard and ignore, or Overpowered. It could take a lot of fiddling to get something unique and interesting.

But what do I know? You had my money the day you announced that there would be customizable races! The Darlocks and Klackons live on!!!

Dano
on Sep 29, 2006
Brad, as much as I would be willing to wait for DA, I think it would be a financial mistake for Stardock to wait and release after Christmas. Forget about dropping the price of GalCiv II. I think what makes sense - considering the short period of time you have left - is to finish up what you're doing with DA and BUNDLE it with GalCiv II for the retail crowd at $40-50. Sell stand-alone DA online for $20 for customers who already have Dread Lord. Drop the price of Dread Lords to $30 over the coming weeks to reduce inventory (and so those who buy Dread Lords don't feel salty for not waiting and realizing DA is coming out shortly).

Unfortunately, the DA released won't have the completed feature list you want, but you can add those in via stardock central later just as you continued to patch and add features to Dread Lords.

The benefit to you is that you can continue to have a retail outlet and take advantage of the very IMPORTANT holiday shopping season (amazon wish lists, gift-giving, shelf-space, etc.) and will allow you to continue adding new customers. This will also allow those who for whatever reason cannot via online, purchase a patched Dread Lord with DA expansion. And by lowering DA via Stardock Central to $20 ($25 max) for existing customers...well, you know basic business 101. You're creating demand for the add-on from your existing base via an enticing price that even cheapwads like me can't ignore).

Then, you have all the time in the world to continue adding the good ideas you said you saw on civfanatics.net. But the key here is release a decent, non-buggy version of DA bundled with dread lords in time for Christmas. If the gang can pull this off, DO IT. Christmas is $$$$, especially before the recession hits next year.

I hope I don't come across as naive, but this seems to be the win-win solution.
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