Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
There is no easy way...
Published on September 28, 2006 By Draginol In GalCiv Journals

When you're a game developer, life is easy. Make customers happy. That's pretty much the only thing you have control over.  Few (very few) developers are also their own publishers. And publishers have a very different set of criteria -- making sure the retailers are happy too which may involve contradictory approaches.

Stardock has one thing going for it that most publishers don't -- a mature and popular digital distribution network (TotalGaming.net on the game side). This has helped us keep some leverage. After all, who the heck is Stardock anyway? But because we sell millions of dollars a year in software via our own digital distribution network, we have alternatives.  That is why, for instance, WindowBlinds hasn't been at retail.  For years, various distributors have tried to make us do deals that would be bad for our customers and bad for us but very good for them.  Historically, distributors had all the clout along with the retailers so the developer/publisher pretty much had to accept whatever was offered.  But digital distribution gives us more options.  WindowBlinds, for example, sells more copies -- even today -- than Galactic Civilizations II.  And GalCiv II has sold very well. Well into the six figure range by the end of last June.  So you can imagine how well WindowBlinds sells and that's direct from Stardock.

This brings us to some of the things we want to do.

We want to lower the price of GalCiv II during the Christmas season. That probably sounds insane. But here's the thing, we want new players to feel like they're part of the rest of the community and hence be able to get Dark Avatar when it's available. And we don't want those users to be spending $70 at once.  As a gamer, I can deal with $40 to $50 at once and then $25 to $30 half a year or more later.  But expecting to put up $70 or more at once is too much for me. 

I know of a lot of cool games I've heard about via word of mouth over the years that I didn't end up buying because I wasn't willing to just get the base game when there was an expansion pack out.  Yes, I know I could just live with the regular game and get the expansion later. But I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way -- if I'm going to get a game, I'm going to get the whole thing.

So now we talk about where the retailers come in.  Retail shelf space is tight.  So one idea was to expand Dark Avatar even further. Put in MORE features than we have listed there. Make it not quite a sequel but far more than a typical expansion pack...

..and then, thanks to digital distribution release the upgrade as the expansion pack digitally so people who bought the original game could get the full new version of GalCiv II at a discount and make the retail version a compilation that includes it all in a single box.  This would make retailers happy and new users happy but it would mean dealying the expansion pack until after Christmas (we'd do an open beta this Fall so people who wanted to start playing it before Christmas could play, it would be "Beta" only in name really, no buggier than a 1.x beta has been which means, some bugs but nothing huge typically).

But doing so brings the question of what to call the new stand alone version? GalCiv II: Gold? GalCiv II: Dark Avatar? There is likely to be some confusion either way.  One of the benefits is that having an expansion pack and compilation version out at the same time would help sales at retail since that's when all the editiorial coverage and advertising would be taking place.  But again, the question returns - what to call the stand alone compilation vs. what to call the expansion pack.

So what got us thinking down this track in the first place? The CivFanatics.com contest. No single entry per se but reading through there just inspired us to want to come up wtih more features to put in. But at a certain point, the features become so long that they're almost a quasi-sequel being made with the same underlying game engine.

We'd love to hear your thoughts...


Comments (Page 3)
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on Sep 29, 2006
Could we have this as a poll on the side?

Anyway I would vote for the expansion after Christmas with those that pre-order (at any time) getting access to beta.
on Sep 29, 2006

Forget about dropping the price of GalCiv II. I think what makes sense - considering the short period of time you have left - is to finish up what you're doing with DA and BUNDLE it with GalCiv II for the retail crowd at $40-50. Sell stand-alone DA online for $20 for customers who already have Dread Lord. Drop the price of Dread Lords to $30 over the coming weeks to reduce inventory (and so those who buy Dread Lords don't feel salty for not waiting and realizing DA is coming out shortly).

Not possible. Retail products have to have their space reserved over 90 days in advance. Christmas ones doubly so.

on Sep 29, 2006
As much as I would like more features I'd hate to wait longer for DA. The more I hear about the cool new things in DA the more I miss them when playing regular GC2, so the planned DA in october would be my choice. Couldn't the extra stuff you've thought up since the contest be added in patches or even a 2nd xpack in a few months? Quite a few games are releasing "episodic content" these days so having only a few months between xpacks shouldn't cause any raised eyebrows.

Having said that, if you decide to lump it all into one big post-xmas release I would certainly pre-order to join an open beta.
on Sep 29, 2006
I'm for a delayed and expanded expansion with pre-order beta. Getting it in before Christmas, in my opinion, will neither help nor hinder a mail order expansion and bundling DA with the original in stores makes sense and can't happen this year anyway. Of course, I'm not in the business so I really have no idea about the business side of things, but as a consumer who has pre-ordered this is what I'd like to see.

How about for the new box: Galactic Civilizations 2: Singularity Edition

on Sep 29, 2006
As someone with a SNES, N64, and Gamecube, I can say that delays are something that I, and many other gamers, are quite accustomed to. That "good games take time, but bad games are forever" is a philosophy that's worked well for Nintendo, and I don't see why it shouldn't work for Stardock.
on Sep 29, 2006
I cast my vote for a public beta and later release date. However, even if there wasn't going to be a public beta, I would still vote for a later release date, because I know that DA will just be that much better.

I must admit, it is really nice that a company actually thinks about how the customer might feel. The thought process seems to have been "Hm, we have all these features that we would like to get in, and the customer would love, but we don't have time to get them in. Let's ask the customers what they would want!" How cool is that? One more score for Stardock!
on Sep 29, 2006
Hello,

I would be okay with either idea. I really appreciate all of your effort to keep the consumers happy. I wish other companies would do the same. I am confident that all the changes you want will show up eventually one way or the other. I am one of the few that still play MOO II and Master of Magic, and so I will be playing GalCiv II until number 3 shows up and will then happily gobble that one up too Anyways, thanks for everything !!
on Sep 30, 2006
I'm considering cancelling my pre-order.

I've been playing GC2 a lot since release and even with extensive modification I'm tired of it. A release like DA in the near future would keep me playing for a while to come - and integrating all the new stuff into a mod would keep me around even longer.

Also I'm somewhat jaded by years and years of PC gaming - the fact is I find it difficult to believe what I'm reading. No offence, but it sounds like your typical bluff for more dev time because SD has realised that DA is in no way ready. If you want to put my mind and other doubters' minds at ease, tell us about some of these further features being considered beyond the current set defined.
on Sep 30, 2006
When read from a distance, some of the comments sound almost funny: "Release it now or I'll lose interest!". I'd say, when the game means anything to you, you will be able to wait a bit. Being yet another impatient gamer myself, I wouldn't mind a release as early as possible, with significant enhancements in updates later on. But keep in mind that providing and supporting an official version will need much more work than offering playable betas. This will most likely result in development time and money not spent on GC2 features. Game development isn't a gift shop after all, the games are made for leisure, but not the one of the producer (well, partly ).

To those who think that it is postponed for financial reasons mainly: A later release date means more time (and thus money) spent on the game. It actually costs them money to work on it longer.

Several game companies have been blamed to release rushed and premature products, we shouldn't press Stardock to do the same in my opinion. I don't want to read yet another review on "expansion with, hmmm, some new features", do you?

That said, I'd like to hear about those new extra features too.
on Sep 30, 2006
Nooooooo!!!!! Don't delay the pack! Forget the extra features, you can always include them in the next expansion pack instead. We've all been waiting a really long time already, being given teasers to keep us interested, and expecting a release soon. Hearing news, like "it'll be another 4 months" would be like a massive punch in the gut.

Like AlphaAsh, whenever I play a game of GC2 now, I'm thinking about the new features that are coming. Knowing what's coming, and comparing it to what we've got, is making the vanilla game seem a bit boring now. I don't know if I can stay interested for another 4 months.

I would suggest a poll, but the options would probably look like this: "Yes, I want even more fantastic features, even if it means waiting a little bit longer." and "No, I want it now, even though it will be inferior and I won't get as much for my money."

How about a poll that says: "Yes, I'd love to be playing DA right now!" and "No, I'll wait 4 months for a couple of extra features."

on Sep 30, 2006
Take as much time as you need. Maybe do a little public beta to appease those who want it NOW NOW NOW. I'll wait. As someone else pointed out, GC2 was released after Christmas and that hasn't hurt it's sales one bit.
on Sep 30, 2006
That's not really any good for people who don't use Beta's.

Like many other people on a budget, I based my pre-order of DA on the fact that it was coming out in Autumn (the fall). I made the choice to wait for DA, when I could have bought other games by now and been playing them. So, it's not nice to hear that you've been messed about.

The anticipation has grown so much, that playing the vanilla game doesn't feel the same anymore. Sure, they can postpone it if they want, but I'll probably cancel the pre-order and find a new game I can play now. I might totally lose interest in it. Who knows?

They sold it to me because of the features that have alrady been announced, so I couldn't care less about the new ones (which we still don't know about yet).

I think the best idea I've heard is releasing it as planned, and patching it after Xmas, but I still think a (fairly phrased) poll is a good idea.
on Sep 30, 2006
I have the game preordered, and I honestly don't mind waiting another few months. For me, I have no shortage of great games to play, with about a half-dozen more being released in the near future. So take your time, and make Dark Avatar that awsome expansion you want it to be. You know, that one with an expanded United Planets

I'm very interested in a beta -- that's something I'd like to see before the end of the year. Plus I could put some beta testing on my resume

Like others have said, this would make an excellent poll question. As for the name, forget this Gold or Platnium nonsense . . . give us Galactic Civilizations II: Duralthene edition!
on Sep 30, 2006
I honestly haven't been playing that much GC2 lately. Now with the fall TV season upon us and more importantly football season I won't be up for playing much games at all until after Christmas anyway. Being your audience for GC2 I think trends older then the teenies who get the lastest X-Box game for X-mas I think there is no problem at all waiting until after the holidays. Look at Obvlivion. Released in March and sold millions. Yourself with GC2 did very well after the holidays.

I think take your time, put in the features you want, release in say Feb/March. Have a beta of course for those that pre-order.

Have a stand alone download for Dark Avatar as you are planning now. Those that pre-order get that.
Then yes, I think have a compliation edition put in retail stores that "replaces" the GC2 you have there now and includes both the original game and DA and make it painfully clear on the box it includes both. Sell it for $50 or something.

Names....
Gal Civ 2: Ultimate Edition (only if you don't plan to have a 2nd expansion)
Gal Civ 2: Plantinum or Gal Civ 2: Platinum w/Dark Avatar
on Sep 30, 2006
So really the first question is - would users be willing to wait until AFTER Christmas for an expansion pack if it had more features? Or would they prefer the original expansion pack concept? OR would they be okay with the expansion pack after Christmas as long as there was a beta program for those who pre-ordered it before Christmas?



I can only speak for myself, but i know a lot of people have gotten very used to the idea of a pre-christmas release, including me. Now throw in talk of more features for an after christmas release, and you've got a conundrum. Lets face it, people what things NOW NOW NOW! But we also want MORE MORE MORE!

So i think you hit the nail on the head with a compromise. I want SOMETHING before christmas, but i also want more features. So if there is a Beta release of DA prior to the christmas season with the origional DA concepts, and s final release after christmas, i think that satisfies most everyone.

I'd like something before christmass, I don't care if it's called a Beta, pre-Beta, Alpha, or Delta , just as long as it's generally bug free and stable enough to play. Which i think you will find is the case for most people who pre-ordered. If there's going to be more cool features and content added on throughout and after christmas, than that's even more icing on the cake. Just as long as there's "something" for pre-orderers before christmas. That way DA won't fall into that same ole "game is being delayed" crack.
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