I've heard many opponents of the war claim that Bush said Saddam and his WMDs were an imminent threat as a way of scaring the American people into support. Actually, Bush said flat out that Saddam's WMD program was not an imminent threat, but that if we waited for it to be one then we would have waited too long. Some people seem to have a hard time understanding that.

Oh i think they understand that.  We are talking about people who opposed the war anyway latching onto this as their new reason for opposing the war.  These aren't people (generaly speaking) who were in favor of going in there who now changed their minds.  Before they didn't want us going in for pretty weak reasons.  Now they can use the no WMD stockpiles argument to sound less lame in light of all the atrocities and other uncovered nastiness of Saddam's regime.

Draginol:
I supported the war, based on Colin Powell's statements to the U.N. Security Council but I do believe Mr. Bush was consistent in saying how much of a threat the WMD's presented to the U.S., the Middle East and Europe. Second, Mr. Bush has consistently maintained a connection with Al Qaeda and terrorism groups that threaten the U.S.
Are you now saying that this is incorrect?

No.  I am simply saying that that primay point of going into Iraq had little to do with finding stockpiles of WMDs. 

You added just now the mentions of Al Qaeda and other things. Please don't make strawman arguments. I said nothing of Al Qaeda, terrorism, or anything else in this article.

Saddam clearly had WMD programs. That is a fact verified by the Kaye report. Saddam's plan was to wait out the sanctions and then he or his sons would move forward on them.  Bush, btw, has explicitly stated that he did not consider Iraq an imminent threat but more a long term menace that in the post-9/11 world we could no longer tolerate. I agree with that and so do millions of other Americans.

Draginol:
If Mr. Bush made statements linking WMD's to both a "possible future threat" and to possible terrorist actions (as he has also done with North Korea) as a pretense to war (which I would agree was done) then the voter must consider whether they believe the evidence presented by Colin Powell was factual and correct, because that is the basis upon which we said we acted.
Since Powell has since stated the intelligence was not correct, where do you draw the line between the leadership (i.e. the administration) misleading the public (even with the best intentions) and the fact that they were duped by false information supplied by Iraqis (like Chalabi) to further their own aims and political ambitions? Does the White House take no responsibility for itself?

Why not just rely on common sense:

If WMD stockpiles were the main justification for going into Iraq and we haven't found them, then why do so many Americans still favor us having gone in there? Answer: Because WMD stockpiles weren't the main justification.

You are confusng Powell's arguments to the UN to get another UN resolution passed with the US reason for itself to go in.

Colin Powell clearly stated that our actions were based on the "evidence" presented before the U.N. Why do Americans still favor us having gone in there? Because the basis for doing so (to remove what everyone on both sides of the political spectrum) was removing Saddam. No one is defending Saddam (except for his corp of 50 international lawyers). Americans at this juncture are still undecided about whether we were justified on any other basis.

What I question is why, if you are so sure this is no longer an issue because it is "so accepted" that we did the right thing do you worry about liberal statements to the contrary? Aren't people who you believe are wrong entitled to their "incorrect" ideas?

Lol, there is information out there pointing to the fact that HUSSEIN though he had WMDs. One general thought another general had them, who in turn... and on and on...

Where did they go? Did they ever exist? Who's to say?

The real problem is that the CIA had no one in Iraq to find out. Why? Because the Clinton administration made rules so draconian that it was impossible to glean intelligence there.

So, in the end, if the information was flawed and incomplete, wouldn't it be the fault of those who made it imposible to glean the information?

What I don't like is historical revision. 

First off, Colin Powell isn't the President. I don't really care what comments you believe he said.  Secondly, please back up your assertion with a quote or something where Powell states that the reaosn we are going into Iraq is to confiscate or whatever Saddam's inventory of WMDs.

I've read your blogs, CrispE, I think it's highly doubtful you ever supported going to war in Iraq. I, on the other hand, was blogging even before we went to war in Iraq and posting both the administration's reasoning and my arguments as to why we should go into Iraq. And I can assure you that WMD stockpiles were never the thrust of the argument.

Bakerstreet: Indeed and the CIA's failures ARE troubling.  But not really relevant.  As Bush has explicitly stated, even if we knew Saddam had no WMDs on hand, we STILL would have gone in.  What more does the left want?

"Knowing what I knew then and knowing what I know today, America did the right thing in Iraq." President George Bush, February 5, 2004.

In short: WMD stockpiles were NOT the issue. Millions of Americans agree. There is a quote somewhere that I can't find where Bush is even more explicit that even if Saddam had no WMD's on hand he still would have given the order to go in.

Since Powell has since stated the intelligence was not correct, where do you draw the line between the leadership (i.e. the administration) misleading the public (even with the best intentions) and the fact that they were duped by false information supplied by Iraqis (like Chalabi) to further their own aims and political ambitions? Does the White House take no responsibility for itself?

Intelligence is a very murky subject. There are no clear-cut solutions when you are dealing with intelligence gathering. It is essentially a big guessing game, where the object is to get the best clues you can in order to make the best guess. Sometimes those guesses are wrong. And that can happen for any number of reasons: bad information, bad analysis, bad hair day.

If you wait until you have 100% knowledge, you have waited too long.

Powell has often expressed this idea.

"Use the formula P=40 to 70, in which P stands for the probability of success and the numbers indicate the percentage of information acquired." "Once the information is in the 40 to 70 range, go with your gut."

"Today, excessive delays in the name of information-gathering breeds 'analysis paralysis'."

Bakerstreet: Indeed and the CIA's failures ARE troubling.

And every person I have talked to in the Intelligence community agrees that this is Clinton's fault.

Just one example (the only one I can really reveal)... In my Top Secret interview I mentioned how long it was taking to get background checks done for clearances and I got a 15 minute rant from the DSS agent about how Clinton had crippled DSS. Clinton had, among other things, cut the number of agents to less than 50%, and most of those cuts were in investigative agents. These are the guys that keep our secrets secret, and try to ensure that the people that receive clearances can be trusted. These men and women were sadly overworked... and that was before 9/11.

Draginol:
This is a direct quote from Powell's testimony on February 5, 2003 to the Security Council. I think it is pretty straightforward and obvious what the argument and basis for U.S. action was shortly thereafter. Do you wish the references Powell has made since the war saying that the information was "flawed" or can we agree to that? BTW: Whether you want to believe it or not, I did support the war, hoped it would end in a quick American victory and following said victory the troops would return home with the Iraqis free to pursue whatever government they choose. I did this in part because that seemed to be what we were (and are) doing in Afghanistan. What I didn't think would happen was Viet Nam II-The Middle East.

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction; he's determined to make more. Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression, given what we know of his grandiose plans, given what we know of his terrorist associations and given his determination to exact revenge on those who oppose him, should we take the risk that he will not some day use these weapons at a time and the place and in the manner of his choosing at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond?

The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world.

My colleagues, over three months ago this council recognized that Iraq continued to pose a threat to international peace and security, and that Iraq had been and remained in material breach of its disarmament obligations. Today Iraq still poses a threat and Iraq still remains in material breach.

Indeed, by its failure to seize on its one last opportunity to come clean and disarm, Iraq has put itself in deeper material breach and closer to the day when it will face serious consequences for its continued defiance of this council.

My colleagues, we have an obligation to our citizens, we have an obligation to this body to see that our resolutions are complied with. We wrote 1441 not in order to go to war, we wrote 1441 to try to preserve the peace. We wrote 1441 to give Iraq one last chance. Iraq is not so far taking that one last chance.

We must not shrink from whatever is ahead of us. We must not fail in our duty and our responsibility to the citizens of the countries that are represented by this body.

I would totally agree with you if wanted to argue that Powell made WMD stockpiles a major thrust in trying to get the UN to pass a second resolution.

Unfortunately for your argument, that is not what this discussion is about.  The US had already voted (months previously) authorizing the President to invade Iraq and that case was *not* based on WMD stockpiles.

I have to ask, are you an American? Because you seem very very concerned about what was presented to the UN.