The KKK is a nasty racist organization even today. But they're not terrorists today. They are a white supremacy group just like the NAACP has become a black supremacy group.

A supremacy group? No matter how powerful of a lobbying group that it is, the demand for equality and integration is certainly not the top goal of the KKK (considering that they do everything in their power to see fit that the oppressed stay oppressed)

The NAACP is not lobbying for equality.  They are lobbying for special rights.

Moreover, the NAACP has used phrases like Nazis to describe the Republican party.

In remarks to hundreds of cheering liberal activists Wednesday, NAACP Chairman Julian Bond singled out Republicans as enemies of black Americans and compared conservatives to the terrorist Taliban who once ruled Afghanistan.

"Their idea of equal rights is the American flag and the Confederate swastika flying side by side," Bond told a cheering audience.

You were saying?

For minority or gender issues to effect the election you have to believe that we are basically safe with either candidate, and beleive that the real difference is going to be the social and economic progress of the nation. I don't think people have that luxury this time. People who vote for Kerry seem to be genuinely concerned for the safety of the nation under Bush's leadership, and vice versa.

I agree completely.

People are voting very differently this time around, and I think all the expert analysis trying to outguess the undecided voters based on past trends is going to turn out to be foolish.

There is a long way to go in this election, and it is very close. Either man could win it, and I really don't believe that it is going to boil down to subgroups' more narrow agendas.

Of course, I also doubt that it will be based on a careful discussion of what America should do to truly pursue its best interests, either. Image and dirty tricks are far more likely, and both sides are so sure that they are right that they both believe that the ends would justify the means.

No matter how powerful of a lobbying group that it is, the demand for equality and acceptance into the mainstream is certainly not the top goal of the KKK (considering that they do everything in their power to see fit that the oppressed stay oppressed)

Okay.......I have no arguement with that statement. Although, if you are trying to sell me on equality and acceptance being top goals of the NAACP, you have a long hard road ahead of you. Years ago, I saw the NAACP as a positive force for African Americans but Bond and Mfume are turning it into a hostile, politically motivated organization that I, for one, have little respect for now.

What kills me about the dillusional right wingers in our country is that the believe that if they repeat the lie enough people will begin to accept it as truth. Sadly too often it works. The first example that pops into my mind is that Bush inherited a recession. This is totally wrong. The National Bureau of Economic Research, a non-partial, non-partisan group, has clearly said that the economy was still improving when the Bushies took the White House. He didn't catch a plumeting economy, in fact the economy didn't start to decline untill after the first two months of the Bush presidency. If the neo-cons want to debate I think that's great, but bring something to the table, otherwise keep out of the conversation.

"He didn't catch a plumeting economy, in fact the economy didn't start to decline untill after the first two months of the Bush presidency. "

Do you people even know how government works? Statements like that just show how pig-ignorant people can be. Maybe you should look at what Greenspan was doing, maybe you should look at what tech stocks had been doing, and how many people had blindly invested in them. There were a million reasons the economy had begun to spiral, and NONE of them had to do with Bush.

People like "liberal Dem" above are invariably people who don't keep track of the economy. I remember people talking gloom and doom long before the election in 2000. If it was forseen before the election, I kind of doubt anything Bush did in 2 months created the problem.

Bush had been in office for 2 months functioning under the previous administration's budget. WTF do you think you are "bringing to the table"?

Bush had been in office for 2 months functioning under the previous administration's budget.

now now BakerStreet, you know better than to confuse Liberal Dem with the facts.
Although it's been tried many times before Liberal Dem, it was a good attempt to blame Bush for the sagging economy right out of the starting gate. The left was screaming "Bush recession" while we were still under the Clinton budget. But hey, dont take it from us "dillusional right wing neo-cons" look it up yourself. You might want to work a different angle though. The economy has been in recovery mode for quite awhile now and you might have to blame Bush for that too. I assume that would be a bit painful.

"The economy has been in recovery mode for quite awhile now and you might have to blame Bush for that too. I assume that would be a bit painful"

If Kerry wins and the economy contiues to recover RadLibs will probably say that it was "buyer confidence" spurred on by the belief that Kerry would win. If the budget tanks a few months after he wins, they'll certainly blame it on Bush, though.

I think the people in the NAACP really genuinely believe they are working for equality and justice for all. The policies they advocate may not (necessarily!)have that result, but I think Draginol and the NAACP really disagree over tactics and methods, not goals. For example, they believe in racial preferences in education as a way of redressing certain structural inequalities, not because they feel blacks have the right to a free ride, even though their actions might in some cases have the second result.

The KKK is worse. Their goals have nothing to do with equality, or justice.

How does the NAACP still maintain a tax exempt status when it is clearly a partisan leftist mouth piece? I was under the impression that they had to be a politically neutral organization to qualify and it is painfully obvious they are NOT.

Lots of partisan mouthpieces are. Jerry Falwell's organization is tax exempt, for example.

Jerry Falwell's interests function as a religious organization. The NAACP is now, blatently, a poltical organization. They can pretend that they aren't partisan, but the fact is they are now the African American wing of the Democratic party.

Are you taking issue with the specific example chosen? Or the general point that there are "lots" of partisan mouthpieces? I want to know if this is worth my time to debate.

I think it is a moot point, since the NAACP openly states that they are non-partisan, and that they don't endorse Presidential candidates... Pretty laughable of late.

So you really can't base your ideas about that their tactics, methods AND goals on what they say. Once organizations start behaving that way, you pretty much have to look at the results of their tactics and methods, and take their stated goals with a grain of salt.

Members of their leadership have been very hateful and disingenuous with their characterizations of Republicans and the choices available in this election. Once you have have crossed that line, and I think it was crossed probably 20 years ago, you lose the right to be judged in an "It's the thought that counts" manner...

What is it with left wingers and their inability to grasp objective facts.

In my experience, and one of the reasons why I tend to have less respect for left-wing political junkies is that while often intelligent, they don't tend to look into issues for themselves.  They just regurgitate.  They can't be bothered to look into these things for themselves.

Here's the GDP graph:

The economy in 2000 was CLEARLY starting to hurt.  It was teetering.  3Q2001 (July1  thorugh Sept 30 for you Democrats) was where things really went to hell.

The economic downturn in 2000 wasn't Clinton's fault any more than the subsequent recession was bush's fault.  Dumb people who spent trillions (literally) in the dot-com bubble and then lost it when the bubble burst caused the down turn and 9/11 (and having essentially the month of September being shut down) put us into the recession.

vinciple: My problem with the NAACP is simple: Any group that calls its political opponents Nazis and worse deserve no respect.  The NAACP has slowly become a fringe hate group in my book. Calling the Republican Party the party of the swastika is incredibly offensive, especially given that it is the party of Abraham Lincoln.

"Any group that calls its political opponents Nazis and worse deserve no respect. "

and what makes is especially heinous is the fact that as a supposedly non-partisan organization that refuses to endorse candidates, they should have no "political opponents" at all.