Bush haters motivated Bush voters

Moral Values != Anti-Gay Marriage

Published on November 5, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

The mainstream media still hasn't figured out why Kerry lost the election. Instead, they react in shock and surprise at the exit poll result that "moral values" was the #1 issue. And what do they conclude? That the anti-gay marriage issue and evangelical Christian vote is what caused that.

Let's ignore the fact that moral values was the #1 reason for Bush voters in states where gay marriage wasn't an issue. Why then are they latching on to that? Because Kerry supporters don't want to admit to themselves (yet) that the reason Kerry lost wasn't gay marriage or even really Kerry himself but rather the behavior and attitude of Kerry's supporters.

In talking with a great number of people since the election, it's become pretty clear that a big reason why people came out to vote for Bush this time was the pretentious and insulting attitude that Kerry supporters had for the values and opinions have for others.

It really all started becoming clear at the Superbowl. When Janet Jackson's breast was displayed for all to see, the left's reaction was "Get over it!" and "Deal with it!" They showed no respect whatsoever for the values of the majority of Americans who are trying to raise children in the way they see fit.

Then we were subjected to months of "Anyone who supports Bush must be a moron, bigot, racist, redneck, homophobe, idiot..etc."

Then this past Summer we were subjected to months of Michael Moore and other media elites with their condescending attitudes towards those who don't share their philosophical beliefs. By the end of summer, we got to see celebrities coming out and telling us what we should think -- as if their opinions are somehow more valid than ours. Why does Sean Penn's opinion matter more than my neighbor's?

Time and time again Kerry's supporters made it clear how much they hated Bush and hated everything that Bush supporters stand for. The nastiness and pretentious behavior of Kerry's supporters thus motivated people who would not normally vote to come out in vote.

And when they did come out, and were asked why, which exit poll question would fit their reason? Which question most closely resembles wanting to come out because you felt your values and opinions were being trampled on? Answer: Moral values.

Gay marraige, the war on terror, and other such things definitely mattered. I don't want to make it sound like they didn't. But in an election that was decided by 3 percentage points, I think Kerry's supporters need to recognize that their attitude towards Bush and those who agree with his views were what cost Kerry the election. Otherwise, they're doomed to repeat their failures in the future.

Comments (Page 4)

Draginol

on Nov 09, 2004

Desert Fox: No offense but I'm quite comfortable with my "comical" knowledge on politics. But thanks for making my point.

drmiler

on Nov 09, 2004

Reply #46 By: thetech (Anonymous) - 11/9/2004 10:01:57 AM
Well...

Do any of you really beleive that the ONLY reason that we haven't had a terrorist attack in this coulntry since 9/11 is because of Bush and his policies?

That is such a lame argument and I am personally tired of hearing it.

We haven't had a terrorist attack in this country since 9/11 because they don't want to attack us directly (Hell, they got plenty of US soldiers in Irag and Afganastan to shoot at and kill, and it's easier there apparently!), or they aren't ready etc.

To terrorize Americans there is no need to blow up huge buildings with airplanes, just a few well placed suicide bombers in small cities across the country, would scare the hell out of people, and it would be easy and cheap to do it too!

Think about THIS! You haven't seen ANY attacks now have you?

JillUser

on Nov 09, 2004

To all of the liberals trying to tell conservatives why they voted for Bush- If you say you voted for Kerry because you feel he has a better plan for America, how would you like it if everyone was saying "That just isn't so. You voted for Kerry because he and the democrats tricked you into voting for him"?

LlamaLamp

on Nov 10, 2004

You know, I was watching the SuperBowl when the infamous Janet Jackson incident happened. I was sitting around the TV with my father, my grandmother, and her sister, my aunt. These are all three adults 40 and over who live in a moderately-sized town. One is a staunch Republican, one is a very conservative Democrat, and all three are very religious Christians. And "The Moment" was over so fast, that not one of the four of us really knew that anything happened! After the camera cut away and the lights went out, we all looked at each other for a moment and said, "Was that--?" Then we shook our heads, watched the rest of the game, and went to bed. I don't think it ocurred to any of us that that was anything other than a mistake, quickly glossed over. When I woke up the next day, it was all over the news as the crime of the century. I can't say I understand it. I mean, how many little kids watch the SuperBowl? How many kids have the patience to sit through an entire football game? I think we've seen much worse, done *intentionally*, many times before, without making such a fuss.

As to "moral issues": that whole thing is so ambiguous, I've never liked it. We really can only speculate on what was meant by voters when they stated this. I have a friend who says that he liked Kerry because Kerry was "reluctant to run a smear campaign" and he thought this was honorable. I have a family member who voted for Bush because he felt that the Democrats had "told too many lies and used too many scare tactics" and felt that the Republicans had conducted themselves more honorably. But the arrogant fluffy boys of the media will continue to spin this statistic to their own confused ends. I say, let them spin themselves dizzy, and let's get on with things. --LL

bakerstreet

on Nov 10, 2004

The idea of going againt our own values to preserve our international "credibility" is akin to an atheist going to church so he won't seem out of place in a rural community. Maybe being disingenuous is the status quo elsewhere in the world, but I don't think we in America need to sell out our beliefs to keep the respect of people who will dislike us regardless...

on Nov 10, 2004

Isn't your article hitting Kerry and his supporters with the exact sentiment you are ridiculing? I KNOW that there were ignorant voters for both candidates and generally their opinions were heard the loudest. But look deeper. GOPs cannot say anything about Michael Moore when their own 'side' released at least two 'documentaries' in response to Fahrenheit 9/11. I suppose that means that opinions are only offensive and pushy when they are counter to your own. Hmmm.

Kerry didn't lose because his supporter's opinions were wrong or offensive. You are going to have to try harder and look deeper to find out that. Watch out though, it may challenge your own opinions.

on Nov 10, 2004

Bush did something about it? Does it matter that it served an entirely different agenda? Does it matter that what he did affects the wrong people? Please don't go on about how Sadam deserved it, because while that may be true, it hasn't addressed any of the issues that Bush is supposed to be "doing something" about. Watch the news, read the papers, maybe even talk to someone from a different country, but most importantly learn your geography. We are doing something in the wrong country.

Deference

on Nov 10, 2004

I'm going out on a limb when I assume you voted for Kerry? If so, how care you even dare attempt to tell the people who voted for Bush why they did? You're not one of them!That is the ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous pompous attitude that MADE people like lil_whip go vote. You! Your antagonistic elitest "step off" attitude. You must be in denial to ignore why someone told you they voted..You're so smart you know what's best for other people and they must obviously don't?

My dear Helix, in America, we can voice our opinions without having to ascribe to particular ideology. Your attempt to discredit my opinion is consistant with other Bush follower attempts to shut out public debate on the war (dissent is unpatriotic) or cut off celebrities' voicing their opinions by calling on them to shut up and act - at least the ones that do not support your particular viewpoint. The epitome of this attack is by calling people "liberals" or "elitests" instead of discussing the issues as was successfully done during this last campaign. Do I need to tell you your rhetoric and intent is dubious?

Again, the attempt to argue that somehow the "left" made people like Draginol and little whip vote Republican is laughable. Those two posters, especially, have been very vocal of their support for Pres. Bush. They would have voted for Bush anyway, regardless of any "left wing" factor. I'd say DUH here, but you'd simply accuse me of being condescending and state that I'm trying to tell people why they voted, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

To expound upon my point as to why I feel that the majority of those voting for Bush voted the way they did I was privy to the thoughts of the following pro-Bushies:

my father ( a Christian Conservative minister in the Episcopol Church )
my stepmother ( a former 3rd grade teacher homeschooling my siblings )
my girlfriend ( an econ major )
some members of my dorm hall
Jason ( He's keeping us safe)
Kyle ( I like his tax cuts )
Rachel ( He's a Christian )
Becky ( He supports the military )
Chris ( Bush is an all 'round ass - kicker and Kerry is a hippie mongrel )
the College Republican president and vice president on campus
Art (arthur) ( abortion and gun control are the main issues of the election this year )
Melissa ( Bush is pro - life )
and a percentage of the over 800 people I spoke with going door to door doing voter registration in this area who spoke of voting for Pres. Bush and what particular reason it was that they were voting for him, which I won't attempt to go through here...

None of these individuals told me they were voting for Bush because of some rude lefty.
I've spent a lot of time analyzing Bush and Kerry voters, I've had many personal opportunities to do so. I find the argument "the left forced me to vote Bush" the final missive from an angry right defending it's vote. Why do you have to defend it, aren't you confident voting for Bush is the right thing, or are you just unhappy many people don't agree with you? Chew on it for a while. Re - ally think about it - instead of reacting and echoing the same poorly reasoned argument that's made it's way from tv pundits to columnists, to bloggists.

oh, yeah..

Ugh....In time, I hope the left gets past it's denial phase.

It was to this statement I replied to z0belisk, "Step off!" as he attempted a generalized statement with zero substance with which to back it - which I called him on. Do you find a problem with that or do you simply not like it? I would guess it's the latter... you're assertion that I'm a self righteous blah, blah, blah, amounts to only your opinion and is more a baseless attack disguised as an argument then anything else.

Thank you, drive - thru.

Deference

on Nov 10, 2004

Dearest Helix,

I'm certainly unacceptant of your "truth" that the majority of Americans voted the way they did because of lefty criticism of the Bush administration. Polls show the majority of those voting for Bush did so because of "moral" reasons as reported by Draginol and the media, at large. "Proof" provided by you via post - election comments given by JU forum users fails to qualify your argument. I would think that enough for you to understand that the argument given by Draginol and echoed by you is flat out wrong.

However, stop telling people why they voted.

Perhaps some users here did vote Bush because they didn't like lefty criticism, I don't deny that. Your failed attempt to put words in my mouth, however, is only another attempt to cover for unsound argument. Shame.

As for the "step off" comment, that was explained, by me, and ignored, by you yet you hold the two words aloft like your shiniest new toy. Who is arrogant Helix? Who is wrong? It would be big of you to say "uncle", but I don't expect that...

drmiler

on Nov 10, 2004

Reply #58 By: Deference - 11/10/2004 4:07:00 PM
Dearest Helix,

I'm certainly unacceptant of your "truth" that the majority of Americans voted the way they did because of lefty criticism of the Bush administration. Polls show the majority of those voting for Bush did so because of "moral" reasons as reported by Draginol and the media, at large.

That was only 22% of the voting public. And BTW just because they voted for moral reasons does NOT mean they voted for Bush!
Try again.

citahellion

on Nov 10, 2004

Not quite sure to whom I should address this remark, but let me put the following thought into the general conversation, at least:

Democratic nastiness was probably not a significant factor in convincing undecided voters to vote for Bush.
It probably was a factor in convincing lukewarm Bush-supporters to vote AT ALL.
As such it might have motivated only 0.5% of the population (one in two hundred), but when Bush wins 51-49 with 50% voter turnout, that means that his margin of victory was as much as twice what it would have been otherwise. (Simple math example: 200 voters. without motivation, 49.5% of them vote. That's 99. Bush wins 50-49, a 1% margin of victory. One previously apathetic voter becomes motivated to vote for Bush, bringing the total votes cast up to 100, which is 50%. Bush now wins 51-49, a 2% margin, twice as much margin as before..)

This lukewarm Bush supporter will not say "I voted for Bush because democrats are nasty, hateful bastards", but the fact would still be that the Democrats caused another vote to be cast for Bush.

Lee1776

on Nov 10, 2004

Polls show the majority of those voting for Bush did so because of "moral" reasons as reported by Draginol and the media, at large.

I have issue with one thing. When the exit poll was taken the person asking what was the "MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE" only gave the following options:

Taxes
Education
Iraq
Terrorism
Economy/Jobs
Moral Values
Health Care

Link

I voted for Bush because of Kerry's past history of leaving the military out to dry multiple times and felt that he would run the military/Iraq/Foreign policy into the ground. But the “slime ball” factor of being the perfect politician would have to be my number one issue.

So if I was asked that question "Moral Values" would be my answer. My choice had nothing to do with religion or gays. But with no “Slime ball" option moral values would be closest.

I have a feeling that there is a very good change that Bush haters may have made some people change their vote. We really don't know because there was no block on the questioner for every moral reason. But I am sure that Bush haters did help get the people who supported Bush and normally would not vote, to take the time to do it this time around.

That's My Two Cents

The Tormentor

on Nov 10, 2004

The funny thing about the elections are the very different actions parties take. For example, in my neighborhood democrats have been keying cars that have bush stickers on them or stealing bush signs in peoples yards. I live in Oregon and with all these liberals and democrats around you are sure to find some that are a little too hardcore in the elections. Personally, I am a republican and I thought that John Kerry bashed our troops a little too much instead of supporting them even if he did not agree with the war. The media also is very liberal and usually only shows the killing or destruction of Baghdad and shows citizens that want the United States out of there. Finally, I am fine discussion political views with any party, but sometimes I feel when you discuss issues or topics with democrats they usually, for me anyway, get defensive and are then unable to talk to. I do not hate democrats, since most of them, are quite fine but there are those few that can be a real pain in the butt. Same with republicans. So that is about all I have to say on this election for now anyway. Feedback on this topic would be nice

Deference

on Nov 10, 2004

That was only 22% of the voting public

"Morals" were held as the highest concern amongst voters, topping out all other issues. You know this drmiler!

Thank you for the voice of reason (as usual) Lee1776...

..and ,yes, Tormenter, there were some poor sports on both sides. I think that just makes the party they're representing look bad, anyone should be able to "put the smack down" on these idiots ruining it for the rest of us. I can't agree with you that Kerry bashed the troops, I thought his objections to the war in 'nam were precisely that, but I see how some could feel that way...

citahellion

on Nov 10, 2004

Deference, you said that morals were the main factor among a MAJORITY (more than all other issues combined) of BUSH voters. DRMiler corrected you because it only received 22% among ALL voters (as mentioned on CNN.com).

Yes, as you mention, it did receive a PLURALITY (more than any other single issue), but that is very far from your original statement.

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