Please don’t get mad when beta 2 comes out

Published on May 13, 2010 By Draginol In Elemental Dev Journals

There is quite a bit of concern (mostly from marketing) that people will be angry when beta 2 comes out because of how much we crippled the betas.

I hope those of you in the beta understand why we did what we did with the betas. Elemental is a new game. It’s been many years since there’s been a new fantasy strategy game made from scratch. As a result, it was important to us that we not rely on 3D graphics or multiplayer in order for the game to have good game mechanics.

Now, some of you may be like me where you’ve played games for decades so you’ll understand where I’m coming from. A GOOD game shouldn’t need super good graphics or high end production values. Tower Defense is an awesome game and it has virtually no graphics. So for Beta 1, we went to considerable efforts to force it to be, well, suck in order to get the beta testers to think about the game AS A GAME rather than as some sort of multimedia experience.

Now, when Beta 2 shows up, obviously with the 3D engine, some of you may feel we were trying to torture you or something. We just wanted to make sure that you guys felt truly free to debate and suggest different game ideas.

When this is all done, we will have to revisit just how much of an impact you guys have had in making the game a BETTER game and how much of that was because of being able to play minus fancy graphics.

Nowadays, it’s very very rare for brand new major PC games to be made. Nearly everything is a sequel or a remake. We felt it important that we take our time and do this right. So while 7 months in beta 1 might have seemed excessive, I think it’ll become clear that giving the beta testers time to debate game mechanics and concepts was worth it.

Comments (Page 4)

DeadlyShoe

on May 14, 2010

I think you were sufficiently paranoiac with your THIS IS AN EARLY BETA warnings that it wont be an issue.

Silicor

on May 14, 2010

Haha, I've never seen a developer pre-apologize because the next release of the game is so much better than the last. I think your marketing team can relax, it isn't like you hyped the game to hell and are releasing a POS. You actually advertised an unfun beta and are giving us a fun beta early... woohoo!!!

I completely concur with your old school, graphics don't mean crap, mentality. Even though I see there are lots of folks that won't give a game a chance if it isn't pretty enough, a game with no depth and shallow fun will only keep my attention for a week. Whatever make the game better, I'm all for.

RavenX

on May 15, 2010

PoPsuX

reply 45

Take your time. We don't need beta 2 right now.. We need it when it's ready!

When the full game is released, I'm going to start on a huge map.. Remember reading in the journals before the beta progress started. That maps could be several times larger then the gigantic maps in civ 4.. And that a map could take several months (possibly years) to complete.. Well, I'm taking that challenge! I'm gonna play a insane huge map... And complete it

That depends on if the game ships with the ability to take advantage of a 64 bit environment or only 32 bit. 64 bit management might have to be patched in if it isn't ready by launch.

vieuxchat

on May 15, 2010

onomastikon

reply 35

Quoting Frogboy, reply 1Just one minor example. With the beta, it would never ever have occurred to us to have a global resource system. Every city having its own resource pool has always been how it's done.
Doesn't most of the Civilization series have, with the exception of Food, a global resource pool (e.g. luxuries such as spices etc., materials such as aluminum etc.)?

Global, but you couldn't "use" them.

In Elemental if you have 100 materials and build something that need 25 then you'll only have 75 left. Like in starcraft.

Thrawn2787

on May 15, 2010

I just hope that this doesn't rush the game to be honest. But if we really are missing as many features as you say Frogboy, then I guess this is A-OK

AXidenTAL

on May 15, 2010

I hope the extra effort pays off in the end. This is shaping up to be a great game.

Bellack

on May 20, 2010

This is the worst game I've ever Pla.....Oh wait wrong forum You guys are doing the right thing. Every game developer should be doing this. So please tell your marketing department to shut thier pie-holes and stay out of the development of the game before they ruin it as have happened with other game companies.

If this game is anything like GALCIV 2 or AGE of Wonders/ MOM then it will be great just as log as you keep the non-gamers (marketing) out of it. Perhaps make them server your developers coffee or something.

Tormy-

on May 20, 2010

Bellack

reply 52

Tasunke

on May 20, 2010

Bellack

reply 52

Tyjenks

on May 20, 2010

Since I only just pre-ordered. my guess is I will not be mad. Sorry to the pre-Beta 2 testers for making you all do the heavy lifting. My trust in each of you in doing a splendid job knows no bounds.

Frogboy

on May 20, 2010

I can honestly say that this is the best game I've ever worked on by far.

I hadn't realized until recently the ramifications of making a modern, PC-only game in terms of what is possible. Nearly every game made these days licenses its own engine from someone else and that engine is almost always cross-platform.

It's not just the performance difference between say a PC and an Xbox 360. In fact, it's not even mainly that. It's MEMORY.

That needs to be more of a mantra IMO for PC gamers: MEMORY. MEMORY. MEMORY. 3D acceleration is wonderful but the biggest difference between what a PC game can offer and a console game is available RAM.

Because Elemental is being made exclusively for the PC with an engine designed exclusively for the PC we can do things like have it use 1 gigabyte of memory. Now, for PC users, a gig of RAM is nothing. But an Xbox 360 only has 512MB of RAM (which is has to share with graphics). So that means we can have units that look and feel very differently from one another. Lots of NPCs, each that are different. Lots of different types of creatures that look dramatically different from one another.

It's actually difficult to explain Elemental to people because, on the one hand, it's a natural (imo) evolution of where strategy games would have been going if the cross-platform (i.e. to consoles) hadn't altered game technology.

Elemental is a fantasy strategy game so one would expect to be able to recruit lots of interesting characters each game and equip their heroes (and have those changes visually change on screen) and do things that alter the landscape (not just put a texture on the map but actually changes the game) and lots of other things that I feel would have been the norm at this stage but everyone these days seems to use engines that were made to also work on much much lower end system specs (i.e. consoles).

References:

Xbox 360 specs

Tormy-

on May 20, 2010

Froggie - let's don't forget about the possibilites of the x64 systems! I wanna see the x64 Elemental client in action!

DeadlyShoe

on May 20, 2010

Frogboy to Xbox: Needs more Ramz, kthx.

Kestral2040

on May 21, 2010

DrGroth

reply 41

This is my first post.

Daily I check the journal entries and appreciate the close communication that the developers (I think Frogboy is the leader) have with the customer base and beta testers. I cannot wait to play this game! I remember Master of Magic as a masterpiece at the time and had a wish that someone, someday would create a newer game that utilized its template. Elemental appears to be this dream come true (almost there…)

I anticipate many sleepless nights expanding my kingdom, recruiting exotic and powerful allies for my armies, training and shepherding battle-hardened and crack troops, and discovering magic artifacts and new spells, and smashing rival kingdoms and armies. My play style tends to focus on defensive tactics and I try to develop smaller, highly experienced armies, a small cadre of powerful heroes, and well-defended bases. (I prefer quality to quantity)

I am not a beta tester, and multiplayer is not my thing. When I learned about the development of Elemental several months ago I set aside $60 in an envelope and wrote “Elemental” on it. Because I do not have internet at home (I’m posting via my work computer—it’s also how I patch my games) I really wish Stardock would offer a Per-Order with a DVD option. Impulse is not an option for me.

I finally went through the process of signing up so I could congratulate you guys, both developer and beta tester.

Keep it up.

Good Luck and Godspeed Frogboy!

http://www.impulsedriven.com/products/SSD-SDE-W002 is a boxed product you can pre-order... Admittedly, its the special edition, which you may not be interested in, but it is an option. The extra stuff is pretty sweet.

John_Hughes

on May 21, 2010

Tormy-

reply 57

Froggie - let's don't forget about the possibilites of the x64 systems! I wanna see the x64 Elemental client in action!

Yes. Yes. Yessssss! I be chomping at that Bit as well.

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