Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The unethical concept of income redistribution
Published on July 4, 2004 By Draginol In Politics

Most people pay hardly any taxes to the federal government. In fact, half the adult population (50%) only pays around 4% of the total federal tax burden. The other half pays the other 96%. Sadly, most of those taxes are poorly used.  The works of government that affect you on a day to day basis are handled by the state. My state income taxes (here in Michigan) is a flat 4% of income (not counting sales tax and property taxes).

Here's a chart of what you pay on a state by state basis: http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html

Federal Taxes are excessive

It is important to differentiate the state from the federal government. Most politicians running for the senate or house of representatives (or President) count on Americans being ignorant of who pays for what.  So here's the truth:  The basic services that most Americans consider the job of the government:  police, roads, schools, fire departments, etc. are handled by state or local governments -- not the federal government.  Remember that next time some politician tries to talk about how we need higher federal taxes in order to pay for "better" education.

For married people (which I am) the federal tax rate looks like this:

  Taxable Income

 

  Tax

Up to $12,000

 

10% of the taxable income

$12,000 to $46,700

 

$1,200 plus 15% of the excess over $12,000

$46,700 to $112,850

 

$6,405 plus 27% of the excess over $46,700

$112,850 to $171,950

 

$24,265.50 plus 30% of the excess over $112,850

$171,950 to $307,050

 

$41,995.50 plus 35% of the excess over $171,950

Over $307,050

 

$89,280.50 plus 38.6% of the excess over $307,050

So let's say you're a married couple, household income of $50,000. You're going to be paying up to $6,900 in taxes. Of course, that assumes you have no deductions. Throw in some kids and other deductions and that $6,900 largely disappears.

Let's say, however, you make $350,000. That's 7 times as much in income.  I think most people would consider it fair that they pay 7 times as much in taxes right? Of course, how many people think that they should pay 7 times as much for their phone? Or their cable bill? Or electricity? Probably not as many. Yet, does this family get any additional federal services? No. But guess what? They don't pay 7 times as much in taxes for making 7 times as much in income. No, they pay 14 times as much in taxes! That's right, on $350,000 of income they'd pay $96,000 in federal taxes.

Now, some people will say "Yea, but those rich people have all kinds of deductions." No, they don't. And as we shall see later, for all the claims of "the rich" finding "loopholes", they sure aren't doing a good job because people who make $350,000 or more are paying nearly all the federal taxes.

Federal Taxes: Not much bang for the buck

But you might say, "Well, the federal government doe a lot of things that helps everyone and the wealthy should pay more, after all, they can afford it." In fact, let's say you take the view Calor does. That the wealthy benefit disproportionately from the infrastructure of the United States and therefore should pay disproportionately.  The argument goes:  If Bill Gates was born in Somalia he'd be just another starveling. What makes Bill Gates Bill Gates is that he happened to be born in the United States where an educated work force, a strong and uncorrupted judicial and legal system protects businesses, and a good transportation and logistical system helps make it possible to bring products to market in over an entire continent.

Okay, let's say we accept that premise. That roads, education, a society that is based on rule of law, okay, let's go with that.  Unfortunately, that's not where your federal tax dollars go. They don't go to helping create a good criminal justice system or better roads or researching new technologies. No, they mostly go from you to some other individual. Here's a pie chart of where your tax dollars go.

Look closely at this.  Specifically: Social Security + Medicaid + Welfare + Medicare = > 50% of the federal spending.  Half of that federal taxes go from you to go to someone else.  All arguments over social justice and compassion aside, how exactly do these programs create opportunity? What exactly is the justification for spending money on these things from a governmental point of view? People like Michael Moore and Al Franken argue that those people buy things which in turn helps the economy and that "rich" people just waste it on fancy food and foreign cars. There's a technical term for people like Michael Moore and Al Franken, we call them "Dumb people". In the real world, most people who generate wealth do so because they are effective at utilizing capital. Blowing a significant portion of your capital on luxury items is not very effective. What these people do is take that capital and invest into things that will generate even more wealth which helps everyone.  I am not suggesting that taxes are universally bad. I am saying that income redistribution is bad because it is a less efficient use of capital. I certainly favor state programs that ensure that our citizens aren't starving or freezing out in the streets. But that's not where this money is going. In fact, programs that help ensure poor Americans don't go hungry are handled by (wait for it) THE STATES.

The original point of having the federal government was to "provide for a common defense, promote (not provide) the general welfare". Those things only use up a small percentage of the budget.  15% on defense, 2% on veterans benefits, 3% on natural resources, 3% on education and 8% on Misc.  Now, that 8% isn't all good stuff. That's where pork barrel programs fall into. You always hear about "corporate welfare". Well, that would fall into there somewhere.  But now you can see what a dishonest charge that is. It's hard to take people who cry "corporate welfare" seriously when that entire part of the budget falls under "Misc." and is only 8% while over half the budget is spent on real live welfare.

Even if you're one of the people who believe Social Security and Medicare are things "we pay into and thus should get something out", that still leaves 15% (Welfare and Medicaid) that are just pure give-aways.  Or put another way, it's charity. Which is ironic because the people who are most militant about increasing welfare are the same people who seem to detest the primary providers of charity historically - religious organizations. Rather than allow concerned volunteers to help their fellow man, we instead pay far away bureaucrats to administer money confiscated from the citizenry. But I digress.

Kleptocracy

The problem with income redistribution is that it opens a Pandora's box that can never be closed. Once you have convinced society of the need to take money from "the rich" to give to others you slide down a slippery slope.  Over time,  power of "democracy" comes in and the majority vote in leaders who increasingly take from the economic producers of society to hand over to everyone else. We already see that today:

This data is from: http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincometable.html

Total Income Tax Shares (percentage of federal income tax collections paid by each group)

Total

Top 1%

Top 5%

Top 10%

Top 25%

Top 50%

1980 100.00% 19.05% 36.84% 49.28% 73.02% 92.95%
1981 100.00% 17.58% 35.06% 47.96% 72.29% 92.55%
1982 100.00% 19.03% 36.13% 48.59% 72.50% 92.65%
1983 100.00% 20.32% 37.26% 49.71% 73.10% 92.83%
1984 100.00% 21.12% 37.98% 50.56% 73.49% 92.65%
1985 100.00% 21.81% 38.78% 51.46% 74.06% 92.83%
1986 100.00% 25.75% 42.57% 54.69% 76.02% 93.54%
1987 100.00% 24.81% 43.26% 55.61% 76.92% 93.93%
1988 100.00% 27.58% 45.62% 57.28% 77.84% 94.28%
1989 100.00% 25.24% 43.94% 55.78% 77.22% 94.17%
1990 100.00% 25.13% 43.64% 55.36% 77.02% 94.19%
1991 100.00% 24.82% 43.38% 55.82% 77.29% 94.52%
1992 100.00% 27.54% 45.88% 58.01% 78.48% 94.94%
1993 100.00% 29.01% 47.36% 59.24% 79.27% 95.19%
1994 100.00% 28.86% 47.52% 59.45% 79.55% 95.23%
1995 100.00% 30.26% 48.91% 60.75% 80.36% 95.39%
1996 100.00% 32.31% 50.97% 62.51% 81.32% 95.68%
1997 100.00% 33.17% 51.87% 63.20% 81.67% 95.72%
1998 100.00% 34.75% 53.84% 65.04% 82.69% 95.79%
1999 100.00% 36.18% 55.45% 66.45% 83.54% 96.00%
2000 100.00% 37.42% 56.47% 67.33% 84.01% 96.09%
2001 100.00% 33.89% 53.25% 64.89% 82.90% 96.03%

Take a close look at the bottom row. 

The top 1% of income earners in the United States already pay 34% of the federal taxes. The top 5% pay over half the taxes. Think about what that means once you have convinced society that it is ethical to confiscate money from one person to give to another.  We're not talking about taxes used to provide education to Americans. Or taxes being used to have a better police force. Or taxes to protect us from foreign enemies.  We are talking about taxes taken from one family to be given to another.  We are also not talking about taxes being used to feed starving people either. Instead, most of this money is now being used to either provide a life style that resembles "middle class" (without having earned it) or is used to provide health services.  Because now, health care is considered a "right".  In 1933, living to 65 was very unusual. Now, apparently, living to 80 is considered a right that should be guaranteed by the government or more to the point, guaranteed by the top 5% of income earners.

That is why so many conservatives abhor income redistribution. It has no end in sight. When 25% of the population pays 83% of the taxes, it becomes incredibly tempting for the other 75% of the population to just continually vote in new entitlements.  Today we debate whether prescription drugs should be provided for by the "government". I imagine a hundred years ago the idea of taxing people to give other people free medicine would have seemed absurd.  At the rate we're going it won't be long until the "government" is required to provide every adult with either a free automobile or annual vacation allowance. Or more to the point, that the 75% of the population that pays only a tiny share of the taxes votes in politicians who promise that the "wealthy will pay their fair share and provide them with free cars and free vacations!".

The usual counter argument is that the rich are "greedy". But who's really being greedy? Every demographic study of "the rich" show that they, on average, work longer hours and take greater risks than the rest of us. Moreover, statistically, those who oppose the welfare state are not much more likely to be rich than those who favor it.  It is an issue of principle, not greed. It is not the federal government's job to decide for us what an acceptable economic living standard is.  Besides that, it seems to me that those who demand free money are the ones who are being greedy --not the ones who are having to pay it.  You can almost imagine the politician saying "These greedy rich folks in their fancy houses and fancy cars think that the rest of us aren't entitled to have a nice car or nice home or a nice vacation! Well they are wrong. It's time for these greedy people to start pulling their own weight and ensuring that the rest of us are entitled to a decent Disney vacation too!"

Honest discussions about taxes rarely happen because the politicians are always so clever about hiding the truth from the average person. You hear things like "A big tax cut for the wealthy!" or "Bush's rich friends got most of the tax cut."  Of course they did because any serious tax cut is going to go to people who...pay taxes. Saying things like "The top 1% are getting 33% of the tax cut!" is like saying "20% of sick days are on a Friday". It's just dishonest politics. 

Moreover, what about the people who call for federal tax increases for things like "more money for education". Huh? The states provide nearly all of the education dollars. The federal government only pays something like 10% of the bill for public schools. And talk about inefficient use of capital - send money to Washington to send it back to go across the street? Duh? When people talk about raising taxes, what they really mean is bringing in more money to pay to other people in the hopes of making them dependents so that they'll keep voting for them.

So next time you hear politicians debate about taxes, tax cuts, the debt, and "entitlements", remember these things: (1) Most federal taxes are simply pay offs to other families. (2) One percent of the population pays a third of those taxes already. (3) Beware of entitlements, in a democracy, the majority of people can vote in any entitlement. And when that majority only pays 4% of the total tax burden, such entitlements are not a matter of IF but rather of WHEN.


Comments (Page 4)
4 PagesFirst 2 3 4 
on Jul 15, 2004
In fact, if someone on the left wants to split hairs about honesty and not mentioning the payroll taxes then they should go the whole way: Demographically, most people in the top 5% of income earners are business owners. And those business owners not only get taxed more but have to pay for half the payroll taxes of their employees. In other words, far from making the liberal argument stronger, bringing in pay roll taxes only makes it worse.
It is has been pointed out time and time again that employers' matching funds are directly attributed to lower wages, and currently, wages suffer because of the stratospheric rise in employers' share of health insurance. Your stats are beautiful but they don't tell the whole story. Your gripe should be with the big guys who evade taxes completely or with convoluted tax shelters. The blame should also go to an inefficient IRS. Notwithstanding, your article is powerful.
on Jul 21, 2004
By the last few posts I think I must have missed the point of the Article because I thought it was saying WHY should THE RICH pay for the POOR. But maybe thats because I'm a full time student who has to work my ass off to make enough money to pay for my schooling because I don't get hand outs!
on Jul 21, 2004
Jay Walker,
I don't know where you live but I think my city if not my state is run by those in their cardboard boxes.
on Jul 23, 2004
the only choices are "interesting" or "insightful"??? wheres the 'retarded' button!?

of course the tax system is not designed to be "fair" in a 'i make twice as much, i should pay twice as much' way.
The point is that, if you take the income, and then SUBTRACT all the money people need to buy in order to live (lets call that number the net gain)
then you tax THAT amount.
(not that the government actually does this. implementation is too difficult. instead they simulate it with a graduated system on a curve.)

for a person near poverty, that value is close to zero.
for a person making 400, 000 $ per year, that number is... about 400,000 $. (ok, ill be generous and say that the actual required expenses for a person in a professional position like that are significantly higher. say double or triple. have to pay for buisiness suits and the like. we'll also include the money their parents spent on them for an education, since it's likely they will do the same for their children. but average it over 30 years, you end up with maybe 6000 a year for two kids at good schools).
so for this hypothetical rich person, the net gain per year is close to 300,000 $.
now, we compute what the ratio between his net gain and the poor guy's gain....
oops. whats a "DIV BY ZERO ERROR"?


'all talk of compassion and social justice aside'?
why certainly, lets argue from THAT position.
its almost the same as your opposition starting an argument with 'all talk about economics aside'.
the government isnt intended primarily to create opportunities for people.
the government is there almost entirely to protect people from other people.
this includes providing for a common defense.
it includes criminal prevention and law enforcement.
the fact that its a *democracy* (ok, partly a republic) means that it is also there to promote the common good.
of course, youre right, if we eliminate the ideas of compassion, and of social justice, then many of the governments programs are pretty senseless.
so is our governmental system.

"Rather than allow concerned volunteers to help their fellow man, we instead pay far away bureaucrats to administer money confiscated from the citizenry"
really? religious organizations are prohibited from aiding their fellow men?
Someone should really reform that law!
youre statement is blatantly false, though admittedly only by a few important words.
'Rather than' tells us that the two methods of helping people are mutually exclusive.
dont be ridiculous, any intelligent person can see that the churches help people.
the reason they cant be allowed to be the ONLY way to get help is because they give strong preference to
people of their own religion/denomination/church, and the US was founded on an idea of religious freedoms -
that people should not be forced to select a religion based on other factors than belief.


"Once you have convinced society of the need to take money from "the rich" to give to others you slide down a slippery slope. Over time, power of "democracy" comes in and the majority vote in leaders who increasingly take from the economic producers of society to hand over to everyone else."
dont be absurd. its not a slope, its a curve.
if youve had economics (which i assume you have. several of your misconceptions seem the sort encouraged in college econ classes.)
hardly anybody believes that there should be complete income redistribution (that's called communism).
theres a slope to slide on, but it doesnt just keep going down.
besides, we've already slid down it, now we're near an equilibrium value.
(had any chemistry or physics? the concept would be simpler if you have. basically, theres some value above which a greater number
of people would consider to be too high. so the votes push taxation percentage toward some particular value, not toward 100%.)

i will agree with you that characterizing the rich as 'greedy' is certainly a gross overgeneralization, and probably mostly unfair.
"Every demographic study of "the rich" show that they, on average, work longer hours and take greater risks than the rest of us"
this is true. the words 'on average' make it so.
the rich do that so they can have extra money. you'll notice that they still do it, even though they have half as much extra money as they would have under a lighter tax system.
after a certain point, money isnt the reason to work anymore (for most, not all, clearly.)

"Of course they did because any serious tax cut is going to go to people who...pay taxes. Saying things like "The top 1% are getting 33% of the tax cut!" is like saying "20% of sick days are on a Friday". It's just dishonest politics. "
also, i will agree with you on both these points.
however, your charge of 'dishonest politics' is meaningless.
because of the heavy swing of the uneducated and thoughtless in elections (and i dont only include the poor there. not everyone who goes to college comes out educated),
politicians force each other to make promises they cant keep, and to promote ideas that arent true.

"And talk about inefficient use of capital - send money to Washington to send it back to go across the street?"
huh?
the physical location of a use of funding is completely and utterly unrelated to its efficiency.

now for your closing remarks.
(1) Most federal taxes are simply pay offs to other families.
the word 'pay-off' is used to refer to an unclean transaction, usually intended to prevent the recipient from doing something.
the proceeds from taxes are not used to 'pay off' families.
now, if you just meant the literal words, that yeah. taxes are paid off to other families.
you win the smart prize.

(2) One percent of the population pays a third of those taxes already.
yup! and hey, do you think they still might have the most money afterward, too?

(3) Beware of entitlements, in a democracy, the majority of people can vote in any entitlement. And when that majority only pays 4% of the total tax burden, such entitlements are not a matter of IF but rather of WHEN.
Oh please.
Of course, the poorest group of people will always want more money, and of course they will always ask for it.
but dont insult everyone by pretending that the enormous middle class will always back them up on it!

Your points are NOT new.
Your thoughts on the matter have been said before, by more intelligent people capable of making better points,
writing articles and speeches that are NOT based on numbers games and red herring techniques .
You need a new title. You never, at ANY point, addressed the ethics of this topic.
Your arguments are based on the idea of 'fairness', which isn't really an ethics concept, so much as a child's vision of the way life ought to be.
Your post is inflammatory, and has no aim - you speak not to convince, or to explain, but only because saying the words again makes them feel more true to you.
Your 'evidence' is so flimsy and unsupported (not to mention in large part incorrectly interpreted) that you have no base on which to make most of your claims.
Frankly, i wish we could have a real formal debate.
I would love to cross-examine you.
on Jul 23, 2004
I retract one of my claims:
your evidence is not unsupported, or terribly flimsy - there is a lot of evidence for either position on most of these points.
(as is evidenced by many of the above posts)

also, i failed to realize that your post may have been aimed at sparking a debate, in which case i also apologize for my comment that your post has no aim.
and the word 'inflammatory' becomes kind of a compliment.
on Jul 28, 2004
The biggest problem with the social security issue is the fact that the people we trust to fix the problem (ie: Congressmen and Senators) DON'T pay a penny into the system. They have thier own retirement and health benefit program already set up. All they have to do is serve one day in office to receive it. Where is thier incentive to fix it? As far as taxes in general the rich do pay more in taxes. I don't mind if they get tax cuts but lets make them earn it, you get tax cuts, we get jobs. I believe I as a tax payer should have more total control of my social security money. Face the facts, I am 33 yrs. old and by the time I get old enough to enjoy FICA, medicare and every other benefit, IT WON'T BE THERE. Whatever your political agenda is, I don't care, I don't plan on waiting around for Government handouts. I will take care of myself!!!
on Jul 29, 2004

Well Eric, before a "formal" debate it would probably be helpful if you learned about spelling and punctuation. It would make your communication much more effective. Though I must say, it's pretty amusing for someone as inarticulate as you to play semantics games with what I wrote.

The bottom line is, the wealthiest Americans pay for almost all the taxes.  Talk of tax shelters and loopholes and other things makes little difference when, at the end of the day, the rich people are still paying almost all the taxes.

And most of those taxes are not spent on things that benefit society as a whole but rather are redistributed to individuals who, in my cases, have done nothing to "Earn" it.  And once you get into that business, you're on a slippery slope in which we are being charged unequal amounts for the same service.  I don't expect to pay 10X as much for my phone or cable. Similarly, I don't expect to have to pay more health care or social insurance than someone else receiving the same thing.

I'm willing to deal with contributing more to paying for roads, schools, police, etc. because the wealthy disproportionately benefit from security, good infrastructure, and an educated workforce.  But on things where it's literally a personal service, the government should just stay out of that.

on Aug 03, 2004
Whether redistribution is unethical or not all boils down to one question: Why do we even have a government? Sure, everyone agrees that it is needed to keep order and administer justice, ect. but the bottom line is that humans are stronger when united. The government provides a means for the strong to look out for the weak, improving our level of civilization. Looking back on history proves that societies that had great divisions among classes will fail. Helping out a fellow citizen should not be viewed as punishment. I do agree that our precious tax revenue is not just used inefficiently, its squandered. The only way to combat this is to elect competent officials with the right priorities, innovative ideas and the guts to fight for change. Elect Statesmen, not businessmen turned politicians.


That is the best way to put it. In order to have that good workforce they need to be feed, clothed and sheltered. Most poor people do not stay poor because they don't like to work, they stay poor because they can not afford the opportunity that others do. even with hard work this does not promise 'making it'. Even now I fight for new laws to defend people who jobs would be threatened because they speak up about a their work environments. Do you think it is easy to be poor and have nowhere to go? No resources to find out where to go?

I do believe the government can better spend its money. Instead of welfare, workfare. instead of lack of education, there should be overwhelming funding for education. if you want to go and your poor, you should be able to go, even if you have to work while your in school, its better than nothing.

Everybody does not make it, Frogboy. even when they work hard. many stop trying because of X Y or Z. I don't plan on stopping, but lets face it, if it wasn't for my parents i would be out on the streets. i am sorry that the wealthy have to pay for my mistakes, but if i do not get help then how do i become a productive member of society? how do my ideas become a factor in increasing GDP?

The value of America is being able to include everyone and everyone getting a chance and having help. I sure would be angry if 30% of my pay was taken, but lets face it, 12 thousand dollars is nothing to live on. 10% of 12 thousand is a little more than 1 thousand. so now you have 10. Take out utilities, rent, and other expenses, how much do you have then? (depending on where you live). Can you do anything with it? Invest it? Save with it? get yourself out of the low paying job with it?

NO

Well then get a second job? some do that and still end up not 'making it'.

I think the bottom line is this:
People of more means pay more taxes because of what is quoted above. To go even further than that, the poor tend to be the most discontent. making sure there is an outlet for frustration, education, food, shelter is very helpful. Drug abuse lessens, crime lessens, a better workforce emerges, next generations have a better chance at education and productivity.

I do agree taxation is a little high for the rich or well off, but that is all. Without those social programs this country would not be better off. What should happen is that those programs need better structure. Workfare is a good example of really helping the poor get jobs and learn how to be better employees.
on Jun 21, 2007
Draginol, I'm curious where you found your information. I'm researching information for how Michigan's state taxes are distributed across various income groups for an article I'm writing opposing graduated Michigan income taxes. If you are willing, please contact me at tgagne at wide open west.
4 PagesFirst 2 3 4