Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Respecting the rights of the majority
Published on February 5, 2004 By Draginol In Personal Relationships

The United States is premised on the separation of church and state. But over time, what that separation means has changed.  The founding fathers wanted to ensure that people were free to practice whatever religion they wanted. Moreover, they wanted to ensure that the government did not establish any official religion. You will regularly hear the ACLU refer to the "establishment clause" of the US constitution as the basis for their various lawsuits against states.

It's a sticky situation because for such a long while, the percentage of Americans who were Christians were so high that religious concepts made their way into government policy. This wasn't intentional in most cases. If you're a true believer many things that are religious in nature just seem natural, common sense, normal. One such thing is marriage.

In hindsight, it was probably a bad idea for the government to recognize marriage as anything beyond a civil union. But it's easy to understand why this happened. Marriage is such a normal part of human life that how could the government not recognize it?  As an agnostic, it's never bothered me either way. I am comfortable with my beliefs and do not feel threatened by people's religions. In fact, I embrace their beliefs because it helps create a deep tapestry of culture that enriches us all.

I also believe in two social principles: 1) That the traditions of the super-majority should be respected and protected. 2) The rights of the minority should be protected.

I think government should get out of the marriage business entirely. I support the right of any two people to "get married" regardless of sex.  However, the super majority don't think the government should recognize these unions. And by our constitution, that's pretty much that. Marriage isn't a "right". The 10th amendment makes pretty clear that anything not explicitly outlined in the constitution is left to "the people" (in the form of their democratically elected representatives).

That said, gays should have access to civil unions that have the same legal punch as marriage. It may seem like semantics but to millions of Americans, it's not. There is a principle involved here. The same people who argued that the Super Bowl nonsense with Janet Jackson was "no big deal" are likely to not see why people object to gay marriage. The majority of Americans believe in these traditions and they have been with us for literally thousands of years. All around us, however, small minorities seem bent on using the government to infringe on those traditions.  Marriage is a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one. And as long as the majority of Americans practicing it believe it should be between a man and a women exclusively that is what it should be. It's their tradition. Contrary to what some may believe, majorities have rights too.

The government should work to ensure that civil unions have the same legal meaning as marriages. Two consenting adults, regardless of sex, should have the right to form a legal union.  For that matter, I believe that any number of consenting adults should be able to form civil unions (whether you're into "Polyamory" or whatever). But marriage should not be open for redefinition by a small minority of people. And they should not be trying to use the tools of government to hijack it for their own uses.

 


Comments (Page 7)
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on Feb 27, 2004

A couple in Alabama were just (yesterday) sentenced to 6 months in prison.  Their crime? They're father and daughter and engaging in sexual relations. They also want to be married.

We're talking jail time.  So if gays can get married, why not ANY two consenting adults regardless of any other reasons?

on Feb 27, 2004
You can make an argument against father-daughter incest because of the inbreeding factor; I'm not saying I subscribe to that argument, but it can be made.

Other than that, any two people who can not inbreed have the green light from me. Yes, I said "any."
on Feb 27, 2004
To BulbousHead:

You are a very well-grounded individual and I personally appreciate your opinion and comments very much! thank you for being such a smart person...we need more of those.....
on Feb 27, 2004
Assuming that you're not being sarcastic (and I don't think you are)...then thanks!
on Feb 28, 2004
Maybe we should ressurrect Merriam W and have him redefine it for us.
Though I'm not in favor of "marriage" per se for gays, I still question my own mine as to why; could it be that I do not have enough faith in marriage between man and woman, putting it on shaky ground, especially in face of divorce that keeps abreast of marriage? Still, I think the gays should settle for a solemn eternal love pledge.
on Feb 28, 2004

You can make an argument against father-daughter incest because of the inbreeding factor; I'm not saying I subscribe to that argument, but it can be made.

Other than that, any two people who can not inbreed have the green light from me. Yes, I said "any."

They don't have children and have said they don't plan to have any. If you're going to restrict one group based on breeding, then why not restrict gays who can't breed at all?

And why can't 3 people get married? Polygamy has a long history as well.  It seems to me that the pro-gay marriage folks still favor plenty of discrimination on other people, they just want in on the party for themselves. 

Marriage, by definition, is between a man and a woman. I don't mind civil unions or some other name for a union between any two people (any two adults) but I object to trying to undefine what marriage means.

To use an analogy, it would be like someone who suffers red/green color blindness demanding that we eliminate the color green and refer to both of them as red.  I feel for the guy who's color blind but red and green already have pretty set definitions. So does marriage. It's been pretty specifically defined for thousands of years. I support gays finding their own equal, but different, term to describe their unions.

on Feb 28, 2004
why not restrict gays who can't breed at all?


That's exactly the point; they shouldn't be restricted because they can't breed at all. They can't do any genetic harm.


And why can't 3 people get married? Polygamy has a long history as well.


Quoting myself from Reply #88: "I've said a couple of times on here that I have no problem with polygamy."


I support gays finding their own equal, but different, term to describe their unions.


Do you support BakerStreet's idea that the government should be able to certify civil unions only (i.e., "civil union" would be the only legal term for a two-person union) and that "marriage" would be the domain of religious or otherwise non-governmental institutions?
on Mar 01, 2004
I think that your paper is interesting, however you don't have very solid convincing arguements that would cause someone to agree with you. Even though I oppose gay marriages, I think that to really make your paper affective you should include some more agruements as to why you or anyone for that matter should oppose gay marriages.
on Mar 01, 2004
Amanda Black: sixth-grade-English-teacher-in-training.
on Mar 02, 2004
you are a dumbass. read a fuckng book, you dolt.
on Mar 02, 2004
you are a dumbass. read a fuckng book, you dolt.
on Mar 02, 2004
you are a dumbass. read a fuckng book, you dolt.
on Mar 03, 2004
Polygamists are NOT automatically associated with Same-Sex Marriage. They are two different topics, and should be viewed and debated as such. Those of you who are for polygamy, it's fine with me. Just please recognize that the equation of "Polygamy = Same-Sex Marriage" does not exist.
on Mar 03, 2004
Polygamists should NOT automatically associated with those who advocate Same-Sex Marriage. They are two different topics, and should be viewed and debated as such. Those of you who are for polygamy, it's fine with me. Just please recognize that the equation of "Polygamy = Same-Sex Marriage" does not exist.
on Mar 03, 2004
Polygamists should NOT by automatically associated with those who advocate Same-Sex Marriage. They are two different topics, and should be viewed and debated as such. Those of you who are for polygamy, it's fine with me. Just please recognize that the equation of "Polygamy = Same-Sex Marriage" does not exist.
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