Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The end of the ordeal
Published on March 31, 2005 By Draginol In Current Events

The Terry Schiavo cas has certainly stirred up many emotional reactions in people. I know that I was deeply troubled by what has happened.  Even though I consider myself militantly pro-choice on issues such as abortion and believe that Assisted Suicide should be the law of the land, these things still have one thing in common - individual choice.

Terry Schiavo has been severely mentally disabled for over a decade. How disabled she is is a matter of debate. The law states that if a person is considered to be in a permanent vegetative state that they may be taken off of life support (including feeding tubes) IF it was the will of that person.

The courts ruled that two things were true:

A) That Terry was in a persistent vegatative state.

That she would want to be taken off of support.

That's where the controvery comes in.  To me, the evidence to support she was a vegetable was poor, at best. Anyone who has ever worked in a group home for the mentally retarded can tell you that there's a lot of people who appear much like how Terry does in the videos that were released.  In addition, there was no written evidence that Terry would want to be taken off of support. We have only the word of her husband that she would want that.

I somehow doubt that most people would want to be starved to death over a two-week period. It will be interesting if any photos of Terry's last days get leaked out onto the net so that people can see just what happens to the body from such a trauma.

The courts, correctly IMO, ruled that the various courts were following the law.  The problem, and I have no idea whose fault it is, is that there was little effort to actually determine the two key points.  When people talk about how all the courts already heard the arguments, they are only hearing whether the courts were right to rule in they did provided that A and B were true. 

What many of the protesters argued was that points A and B were not anywhere near certain enough to justify starving this young woman to death.  I don't see how any reasonable person could argue that points A and B were proven.

The woman never had an MRI, for example.  The video footage seen by millions was never seen in a court room.  The primary witness claiming Terry would have wanted to be taken off a feed tube had long since moved on and had two children with another woman. His testimony with regarding her will was iffy at best.

So what are the lingering consequences? Millions of people around the world just witnessed the United States intentionally starving to death one of its citizens based on pretty shakey evidence.  The issue has certainly energized millions of conservatives -- including pro-abortion rights ones such as myself.  The left comes across as looking hypocritical and ghoulish (in talking to friends and neighbors, the joke "They should have said she was a member of Al Qaeda, then the liberals would have protested to keep her alive!). 

For better or worse, at least this whole ordeal will slowly fade -- I hope.

"
Comments (Page 1)
3 Pages1 2 3 
on Mar 31, 2005
Stick to skinning, and leave the doctors to the decisions about who is or isn't in a "vegatative state." Unless you have an MD I don't know about.
on Mar 31, 2005
The court watched the full 4-hour video, including the parts that millions of people saw. Terry's husband was corroborated by a few other people, and his recollection was compelling enough to convince the judge. A clear X-ray shows that most of the cerebral cortex is gone.

Stick to skinning...
on Mar 31, 2005
For better or worse, at least this whole ordeal will slowly fade -- I hope.

No, it won't. Have you read some of the blogs so far. You would think the Democratic Minority Leader pulled the plug. Besides, I don't think it's a D-R or L-C thing anyway. People have very specific views about death, euthenasia, quality of life that exists beyond the political arena.

And you made my point.:

"The left comes across as looking hypocritical and ghoulish" You don't think the Reps are going to play that little nugget up in the press in 2006 abd 2008? and that the Dems are not going to show the interventionist aspects of the Reps. in the Congress, trying to bypass the state courts and federal courts. Both parties dangerously split the electorate in 2004 with the war, etc. You don't think they won't do it again with an issue that has been around for dacades?

No, this is not going away. It will probably become a cancer. It will go into remission, we will go about our lives, then some event will cause it to rear its head again.

Too bad.

IG

on Mar 31, 2005

The left comes across as looking hypocritical and ghoulish (in talking to friends and neighbors, the joke "They should have said she was a member of Al Qaeda, then the liberals would have protested to keep her alive!).

I so hoped that it would not come to pass as a left right or democrat conservative issue.  Indeed my wife (a Bush hater) and I agree almost completely on this.

But if anyone is going to make it a political issue it is the ones that feel the most guilt for her torture and suffering.  For it is the wounded animal that lashes out the most viciously.

on Mar 31, 2005
My wife and I and a number of people we have encountered since this whole situation started now have living wills, wills, and DNRs.

Hopefully some good will never have to come from those documents. But I know they are in place.

I have noticed a bigger split between people with kids, without kids, married and not.

Starving a woman to death is wrong. I need to see what the BBC is saying, it should be interesting and probably depressing.
on Mar 31, 2005
My only concern is... a beloved pet would never be put down, by starvation... so why would we think it humane to do it to ourselves? What kind of logic is that?
on Mar 31, 2005

Stick to skinning, and leave the doctors to the decisions about who is or isn't in a "vegatative state." Unless you have an MD I don't know about.

There were a host of doctors who have said that such diagnosi are wrong 43% of the time and that there was definitely enough doubt to warrant further investigation.

on Mar 31, 2005

There were a host of doctors who have said that such diagnosi are wrong 43% of the time and that there was definitely enough doubt to warrant further investigation.

Doubt.  Funny thing about that.  Now there is none.  I guess those who lash out so viciously against reasonable doubt for Terri can gloat in that fact.

on Mar 31, 2005

Given how much energy is put in to find any doubt whether someone on death roll actually commited the crime it's amazing how little effort was put in to be certain of a) Terry's condition and whether she'd want to be starved to death.

It doesn't take a medical doctor to say that maybe an MRI might have been a nice step. It doesn't take a medical doctor to observe numerous medical experts who say that it's not definite (it's not like she was in a coma).

Not that it matters now. Frankly, perhaps now's the time to strike while the iron is hot and advocate that all people who cannot feed themselves (due to disability or fiscal irresponsibility) be put to death... Obviously I'm not serious but where do we draw the line? We don't starve animals to death. It's actually illegal in all 50 states.

on Mar 31, 2005
Not that it matters now. Frankly, perhaps now's the time to strike while the iron is hot and advocate that all people who cannot feed themselves (due to disability or fiscal irresponsibility) be put to death... Obviously I'm not serious but where do we draw the line? We don't starve animals to death. It's actually illegal in all 50 states.


I knew it was illegal in most. But you are right on striking while the iron is hot. And there will be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth on both side of the political spectrum.
on Mar 31, 2005
It wasn't that the judges thought she was in a "persistant vegetative state" or that she may not have wanted to continue living that way. The judges simply had more to gain by killing her than by allowing her to live.

on Mar 31, 2005
Stick to skinning, and leave the doctors to the decisions about who is or isn't in a "vegatative state." Unless you have an MD I don't know about.


The court watched the full 4-hour video, including the parts that millions of people saw. Terry's husband was corroborated by a few other people, and his recollection was compelling enough to convince the judge. A clear X-ray shows that most of the cerebral cortex is gone.


And yet, since the person who allegedly said, "I wouldn't want to live that way" was not in court to actually say it, the court illegally accepted "hearsay" as testimony.

Also, Myrrander, if I had have continued to listen to people just because they have "MD" after their names, the cardiac meds they erroneously put me on would have placed me in a "persistent vegetative state" by now... Just something to think about.

The court also ignored every known protocol for "Implied Consent" laws and "Living Will" laws. In other words, they ignored medical procedure, in favor of political expediency.

Furthermore, Wesner, I don't usually waste my time replying to worthless "anonymous users", but your lie shouldn't go unchallenged.

Since "X-Rays" only show contrasts in hard tissues, how would one "clearly show" anything about the cerebral cortex? You may be a bonehead, but that doesn't mean Terri Schiavo was.
on Mar 31, 2005
I so hoped that it would not come to pass as a left right or democrat conservative issue. Indeed my wife (a Bush hater) and I agree almost completely on this.


Agreed Dr. Guy. Making this a partisan issue is more braindead that Terri Schiavo ever was (including now).
on Apr 01, 2005
Hmmm...I have thoughts both in favor and against Mr. Schaivo's actions.

I guess the main thing going for him is that once you marry someone, your spouse is considered your next-of-kin, who, in the event of certain circumstances, can make those choices for you. Obviously no one ever thought it would come to this...but he did have that going for him...

On the other hand...I think he's a total bastard for several reasons. What kind of person is he to not let the Schindlers in to be with their daughter in the last moments of her life? I've been there...those minutes are sacred. How can you just be so selfish and not let them in? My other thing is...yeah...I can see him being a young man and wanting to move on with his life and have a family or whatever. If something were to happen to Ryan, I don't think I'd want to live my life alone, either. But there comes a point where you can say...okay...hmmm....maybe I shouldn't have two things going here.

Also...I guess I wonder why its taken this long to have the feeding tube permanently removed. It would have been one thing to let her go at the time of the incident itself, but after all these years...I have a big problem with it.

At any rate, I'm glad the ordeal is over, and I hope that the grieving parties can take comfort from each other and their faith and move on... I wish the Schindlers would have been able to take care of their little girl like they wanted...but I guess it was not to be.
on Apr 01, 2005
Also...I guess I wonder why its taken this long to have the feeding tube permanently removed. It would have been one thing to let her go at the time of the incident itself, but after all these years...I have a big problem with it.


That would mean that even with a living will it would only take one person with a bit of cash to make that living will as meaningless as not having one. At least the practive over here is that hospitals tend to keep you alive if you're a likely donor and are registered as such.
3 Pages1 2 3