Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
The end of the ordeal
Published on March 31, 2005 By Draginol In Current Events

The Terry Schiavo cas has certainly stirred up many emotional reactions in people. I know that I was deeply troubled by what has happened.  Even though I consider myself militantly pro-choice on issues such as abortion and believe that Assisted Suicide should be the law of the land, these things still have one thing in common - individual choice.

Terry Schiavo has been severely mentally disabled for over a decade. How disabled she is is a matter of debate. The law states that if a person is considered to be in a permanent vegetative state that they may be taken off of life support (including feeding tubes) IF it was the will of that person.

The courts ruled that two things were true:

A) That Terry was in a persistent vegatative state.

That she would want to be taken off of support.

That's where the controvery comes in.  To me, the evidence to support she was a vegetable was poor, at best. Anyone who has ever worked in a group home for the mentally retarded can tell you that there's a lot of people who appear much like how Terry does in the videos that were released.  In addition, there was no written evidence that Terry would want to be taken off of support. We have only the word of her husband that she would want that.

I somehow doubt that most people would want to be starved to death over a two-week period. It will be interesting if any photos of Terry's last days get leaked out onto the net so that people can see just what happens to the body from such a trauma.

The courts, correctly IMO, ruled that the various courts were following the law.  The problem, and I have no idea whose fault it is, is that there was little effort to actually determine the two key points.  When people talk about how all the courts already heard the arguments, they are only hearing whether the courts were right to rule in they did provided that A and B were true. 

What many of the protesters argued was that points A and B were not anywhere near certain enough to justify starving this young woman to death.  I don't see how any reasonable person could argue that points A and B were proven.

The woman never had an MRI, for example.  The video footage seen by millions was never seen in a court room.  The primary witness claiming Terry would have wanted to be taken off a feed tube had long since moved on and had two children with another woman. His testimony with regarding her will was iffy at best.

So what are the lingering consequences? Millions of people around the world just witnessed the United States intentionally starving to death one of its citizens based on pretty shakey evidence.  The issue has certainly energized millions of conservatives -- including pro-abortion rights ones such as myself.  The left comes across as looking hypocritical and ghoulish (in talking to friends and neighbors, the joke "They should have said she was a member of Al Qaeda, then the liberals would have protested to keep her alive!). 

For better or worse, at least this whole ordeal will slowly fade -- I hope.

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Comments (Page 2)
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on Apr 01, 2005
Let me chime in with my thoughts....first up...the MSM is pushing the myth that only the devoutely religious were in favor of saving her life...well if thats the case, then I wouldn't have been included as I am not very religious...this would also include a large chunk of those who were in favor of life for terry or at the very least a another look at all the evidence and full test results....which the husband never allowed to have done her whole time in that condition.

As to the recommendations of Doctors both for and against, only a hand full actually were given a chance to examine Terry..mostly from those who were in favor of letting her die...the vast majority never saw her and fewer still had access to her medical records...from both sides....but this is ignored or glossed over by the media and those who wanted her to die...

Stick to skinning, and leave the doctors to the decisions about who is or isn't in a "vegatative state." Unless you have an MD I don't know about.


Myr...at least your consistent in being an ass....you do it well


Let me finish by sayinga what if.

What if evidence is found/discovered/produced to show that the position taken by those who were willing to let her die on very flimsy hearsay evidence and a slanted judge (who took by the 15hrs to write a statement to the press, but didnt take that long to judge the evidence) were wrong...legally, ethicly, and morally...would those who pushed in an almost insane way for her to die appologise to the family? or would they just shrug it off as 'oh well, better luck next time'?
on Apr 01, 2005
ABOUT time.

Never have I wanted someone to pass away so quickly. Alas the hypocrisy will continue. A nation willing to war with another
who hasnt wronged it ... now sooo concerned about one persons life.

Meanwhile Miss Hudson (a black woman) of Texas lost her son whose life support was disconnected because she couldnt
afford to maintain it. A law signed into power by ... GUESS WHO???

If Terry wasnt a Schindler/Schiavo we would NEVER had heard of this.
on Apr 01, 2005
>What if evidence is found/discovered/produced to show that the position taken by those who were willing to let her die on

blah blah blah
yadda yadda yadda
spare me your "compassion"

>would those who pushed in an almost insane way for her to die appologise to the family? or would they just shrug it off as
>'oh well, better luck next time'?

Who cares, 15 years is more than enough. Shes been there wasting services that could be used in care of others with better
hope of leading a normal life.

If you arent up and about after a year ... the option should exist to relieve you of your misery.
I still think it would have been more humane to administer a lethal injection than have her wasting services for 13 days.
That legal injection should have been done 14 years ago.
on Apr 01, 2005

I just read a poll that 62% of people polled think Terri's remains should be turned over to the Schindlers.  If they think they have the right to her "after death" and they also think she "died 15 yrs ago", why wasn't she turned over to them long ago?

I am not a member of the religious right, I don't believe that Terri would ever be "normal" again, but I do believe that the default should be life until strongly proven that a person should be starved.  If her parents were able to pay for her care by their own means, why not let them?  If you believe Terri isn't aware, it isn't hurting her to keep her body around for their sake.  By killing her, you kill any hope and joy that her family derived from her.  What good comes from that?

on Apr 01, 2005
>If he had been the one yelling "Pull the Plug!!!" I bet you'd have been the one holding the biggest BUSH=HITLER sign
>of them all, eh, rombios?

I would be holding that sign for OTHER reasons but not for this. In this I would support him if he made a thought out
decision. You are wrong if you think my feelings are driven by hatred of BUSH. Both BUSH's are opportunists but they
have very little to do with this. In fact their greatest crime is their involvment and hypocrisy.

Set aside the fact that government has very little business poking into our private lives.

This woman has been useless for 15 years. ... 14 years too many.
My feeling about this remains the same ... she has been wasting vital resources for over 15 years. Enough is enough. After
the first year her life should have been terminated with a lethal injection ... free her from her misery.

All this talk of Bush Hatred this and Bush Hatred that.
I am no particular fan of the President before him. Clinton had his faults ... too numerous to list
They include
Attack on Somalia
Involvement in Serbia and Air campaign which led to the deaths of innocents
Mis-direction in bombing a drug factory in the Sudan
there are others.

little_whip. heres an advice .. learn to think BEYOND your feelings for or against an individual, and stop reaching conclusions
without proof (like your Bush Hater nonsense)
on Apr 01, 2005
Well, the soap has finally ended, as I have no other way of describing it. And the arguments here. You don't starve animals to death for instance. No, you don't, you put them actively out of their misery. On humans it would be called euthanesia. And as that option was out, there was no other legal choice to put her finally out of her misery.
And if I don't know how many judges each time rule the same way, with such a powerful lobby and lawyers to persuade them otherwise, I would say Terry's husband had a pretty powerful case, the only arguments I have heard against the rulings can all be safely classified as FUD.
The only wakeup call I see here (besides getting your wills about when to stop treatment in order ) is the total disregard politicians showed for the legal system. But hey, what else do you expect in a soap?
on Apr 01, 2005
Well, the soap has finally ended, as I have no other way of describing it. And the arguments here. You don't starve animals to death for instance. No, you don't, you put them actively out of their misery. On humans it would be called euthanesia. And as that option was out, there was no other legal choice to put her finally out of her misery.
And if I don't know how many judges each time rule the same way, with such a powerful lobby and lawyers to persuade them otherwise, I would say Terry's husband had a pretty powerful case, the only arguments I have heard against the rulings can all be safely classified as FUD.
The only wakeup call I see here (besides getting your wills about when to stop treatment in order ) is the total disregard politicians showed for the legal system. But hey, what else do you expect in a soap?
on Apr 02, 2005
I think he's a total bastard for several reasons. What kind of person is he to not let the Schindlers in to be with their daughter in the last moments of her life?


another villianous act by the judas of the new millenium huh? her parents werent even there (probably cuz michael sent a suicide bomber to keep em away). that prick--determined to deprive terri of one last moment of quality time on earth--had the nerve to ask her brother (who'd caused some sorta scene sufficient to require the cops to be called into the room) to take the fight outside. no wonder rational, well-informed common sensible americans hate that bastard and fervently pray he'll be smote by the hand of god (before or after having the mark of cain imprinted on his forehead). the scumbag claimed to be trying to maintain a semblance of dignity but you don't need a college degree (actually having one would probably cloud your vision) to connect the dots. that cowardly wife-killer just wanted to be alone with terri so he could shove a pillow down her throat.
on Apr 02, 2005

It is interesting that some are trying to make this a secular / religious issue.  As an agnostic (I don't have enough faith to be an atheist) I find the argument that only religious people were against what happened to Terry to be amusing.

I simply believe in the rights of individuals. And in this case, we don't know what the individual wanted. That's why they have living wills. The evidenciary burden on Michael should have been much higher when talking about issues of life and death.

It should be noted, in 15 years she never had even one PET scan.  That's ridiculous. 

What I just don't understand is that the same people who shriek that this woman needed to be starved to death are the ones who shriek about any idea of cutting welfare programs.  Why not less those Americans who are so brain dead that they can't figure out how to get food starve too? I hear it's painless..

on Apr 02, 2005
"And I'm sorry, no matter how strongly you feel that the war in Iraq was not justified, comparing the deaths that occur (on both sides, I'll remind you) during armed conflict to starving a defenseless citizen to death is just a straw that won't hold, no matter how often you grasp it."

I trust that your humanity also cries for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi children; cry also for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi civilians; and cry for the dead and maimed Iraqi freedom fighters; cry for these righteous martyrs and you shed tears of grace.

Thus far American military superiority has killed more than 100 thousand Iraqi civilians and freedom fighters. To suggest that these dead souls had a fighting chance against the American death machine, to ignore the their defenseless state, is to disregard that which belongs to critical thinkers: facts! Get your facts straight. It is true, however, that the droves of human beings daily slaughtered by the tyrannical-hand of that evil war monger Bush were not helplessly lying in a bed in a hospice; rather they were leading vigorous lives, which were tragically cut short by Bush and his blue state backers. At least, Michael Shicvao's motive was to honor his wife's wishes, and not the self-interest that underlying the action of Bush and his thugs , the blue-state rednecks.
on Apr 03, 2005
Did anyone else find it utterly insipid that while the husband's posse claimed she was "vegetative" and all the rest, the excuse for making sure the brother and sister weren't in the room when she died was so that she could slip into death without conflict and turmoil?

The lawyer actually had the balls to say that. He said that they felt she had the right to spend her last few moments in peace, not in familial dispute. My God, the freudian slip...
on Apr 03, 2005
I trust that your humanity also cries for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi children; cry also for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi civilians; and cry for the dead and maimed Iraqi freedom fighters; cry for these righteous martyrs and you shed tears of grace.




ok, here is what i say.....lets put Saddam back in power...and pack up your sorry ass and ship it over there to live....and then tell me about those precious "Freedom Fighters".....

oh....and where are we getting these numbers of "tens of thousands of Iraqi children" being slaughtered by evil American soldiers?
on Apr 03, 2005
Did anyone else find it utterly insipid that while the husband's posse claimed she was "vegetative" and all the rest, the excuse for making sure the brother and sister weren't in the room when she died was so that she could slip into death without conflict and turmoil?


why would her brother--from what i've read, it appears he was the one who prompted the call for law enforcement--cause a scene of that magnitude since he was sure she was in some way conscious of the world around her?

is it be equally insipid for mourners atta wake or funeral to expect other attendees to comport themselves with enough decorum so as not to require police intervention? except for the guy in norway who was accidentally placed into a casket with his cellphone (which started ringing during the service), it aint the departed who'd be likely to call 911.
on Apr 03, 2005

I trust that your humanity also cries for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi children; cry also for the tens of thousands of dead and maimed Iraqi civilians; and cry for the dead and maimed Iraqi freedom fighters; cry for these righteous martyrs and you shed tears of grace.

It's always interesting when some left wing kook talks like this that they never have a source to back it up. 

One wonders who exactly he believes are "freedom fighters" in this discussion?

on Apr 03, 2005
"why would her brother--from what i've read, it appears he was the one who prompted the call for law enforcement--cause a scene of that magnitude since he was sure she was in some way conscious of the world around her?"


Maybe because his sister was being starved to death? It's one thing to hear that your sister was murdered, it is another to watch it happen over 13 days.

And before you take issue with my use of the word "murder", you are talking about her brother, not you. YOU don't think it was murder, granted...
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