Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Support from Clinton
Published on February 9, 2004 By Draginol In Politics
I highly recommend reading this article: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp

It is a very good article that discusses why the US went to war with Iraq in the first place.  It never ceases to amaze me that two things about the on-line world always remain true: 1) How little people know about the facts of history and 2) How willing they are to go on-line and demonstrate this.

The United States and UK went into Iraq because it believed, correctly so, that Iraq was a serious threat to the region and to the US/UK. The Kay report has been reported very selectively. What it actually says includes three  things but only one has been widely reported:

1) No weapons of mass destruction have yet been found and it is increasingly likely that none will be found.

and the part left out that should be mentioned:

2) Saddam thought he had weapons of mass destruction. His generals thought he had weapons of mass destruction. Due to internal corruption, money that was being spent to create weapons of mass destruction were diverted to other things.

3) The general strategy Saddam was going towards was to not create stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction but rather prepare the way to be able to produce them in quantity once the sanctions were lifted. That is, not have a smoking gun but get everything in place to flip a switch once the heat was off.

It is items 2 and 3 that should be remembered and yet are overlooked by the media (and amazingly there are still some people who claim there is no bias in the media).   The United States was attacked on 9/11. It was the most severe attack by a foreign entity against the United States since 1812.  The US is at war.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 directly. But that's totally irrelevant. In a post-9/11 world Saddam couldn't be allowed to stick around. The UN believed he still had weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence services from every major country thought he had WMD.  And why not? Iraq said that they had them too. When Iraq tossed out the inspectors in 1998, there were still tons of WMD unaccounted for.  Iraq refused to account for those weapons and hoped to play the stall game in the hopes that France and Russia would again take the position that sanctions should be lifted.  The people who were against the war are still against the war. The people in favor of military action are still glad we did it. Not finding WMD is completely irrelevant because a) it wasn't up to us to prove he had WMD. and His current possession of WMD was irrelevant.

But don't take my word for it. Here is something former President Clinton had to say this past year.

"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995 Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities--and weapons stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth.

Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability, notably, 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production. . . .

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door, and our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it. . . .

Over the past few months, as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large. . . .

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. . . .

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . . .

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal. . . . In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now--a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers, or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam, and all those who would follow in his footsteps, will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council, and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.

-Bill Clinton


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 09, 2004
Letter to editor today:

"David Kay says we got it all wrong;
George Tenet says he got most of it right.
George W. Bush says it doesn't matter if we got it right or wrong;
Dick Cheney keeps saying we found things that have not been found.

If you're confused, you're not alone.
Only the poet got it right:

What a tangled web we weave
When first we practive to deceive."

Willima R Goetz, Minneapolis
on Feb 09, 2004
I am going to through a spanner in the works and asy my argument was never that they went to Iraq for WMD...

It was for OIL!!!!!!!! hahahahaha..... And to have a US friendly base in the Middle East rather than the ever increasing hostile evironment of Saudi Arabia.

you like that one Brad? and to quote you if i may...

If more people would just THINK for themselves on these issues, then better ideas and positions would be formed...

Trust me, i thought about it and to me, its all quite logical.

what a liberal cliche...
on Feb 09, 2004
There is not much you can say to make a left winger understand the threat that Hussein posed. It should have been obvious that Hussein was a sworn enemy of the United States. Hussein was a murderous dictator sitting on the world’s second largest oil supply, which added money into the equation. Nuclear ambition is an expensive hobby; it costs billions. In a post 911 world it world have been nothing short of dereliction of duty to have allowed Hussein to rebuild his pre gulf war capabilities, that would have been suicidal policy. Saddam Hussein would have arbitrarily turned an American city into blackened earth at a whim, or sickened a large population with a biological attack. It’s pretty unfortunate that the Dems would politicize this matter; I guess that is nothing new, they did it in the Vietnam era when many of them tried to pin the blame for the failure squarely on Nixon, conveniently leaving out JFK and LBJ.
on Feb 09, 2004
I agree, the hysterics of some on the left here make me glad that the adults are in charge of government and not them and their ilk.
on Feb 09, 2004
The above quote is directly off the PNAC website, stated quite clearly, and it is this same group of men running the show in the Bush admin. So to blow it off as liberal smack is to ignore the facts.
on Feb 09, 2004
BTW, do you notice that all you see from the left seems to be a bunch of empty assertions? Here I provide quotes from President Clinton himself along with a link with a historical summary of events and what do we get? Just a bunch of "La la la, I can't hear you".
on Feb 09, 2004
I'm sorry to ask this but I can't find the information anywhere else. Did Bush bother to ask what kind of weapons Saddam Hussein had before he declared war?

To me, being a Briton in Britain, the fact that our guy didn't ask is just shocking. It doesn't matter to me that he chose to go to war really because you can argue a really good case for and against it, but he didn't bother to ask what kind of weapons Saddam Hussein had (or allegedly had - whatever...). What else didn't he think was important to know!

Here Bliar upped the "imminent threat" ante massively, more so than Bush did, and yet he didn't even think to ask for clarification as to the nature of that threat. So he claims. And if he's not telling the truth there then he deliberately mislead people. Which he passionately claims he didn't. Either he's incompetant or a liar. Nice.

I really don't know what to believe, but next time there's a low turn out at an election (and it gets lower and lower in the UK each time) it'll be because people have lost faith in the people in power due to the fact that they never get a straight fact out of the lot of them.

We shouldn't be debating this now. Opinions are and should be different, but FACTS are being changed daily to suit the current claim or counter-claim. The debate has moved from "Should we have gone to war?" to "What were the facts?". Well we were told the facts last year but now they seem to have changed. How?

Going to war against someone is a massive undertaking and yet with this war no one seems to know what is going on, or what went on. The past is being rewritten and and reviewed and we mere mortals are no closer to getting to anywhere near the truth of it.

If past fact can be questioned so completely, how can they ever expect us to believe a word they say in the future?
on Feb 09, 2004
I agree, the hysterics of some on the left here make me glad that the adults are in charge of government and not them and their ilk.


Ouch! Goodness Brad, I'm a lefty but I thought my arguement at least deserved some respect... Besides, some of us lefties agree that war was necessary.

Cheers
on Feb 09, 2004
Foolhandy, I might be simplifying here but, I had to check my atlas to make sure, Priminister Blair might have been right saying "imminent threat" for ya'll, he may soon have been able to chunk a rock far enough to hit you on the playground but not us in the USA. We are allies still aren't we?

Brad, I'm not trolling.
on Feb 09, 2004

Sorry Jeb to mix you in with the rest. I think you know what I refer to.  It only takes a few zealots from either side to make what could be an intelligent discussion difficult.

When people say Bush misled the nation, it begs the question: Bush? If Bush misled the nation then so did Clinton and so did a host of people on both sides. Everyone thought Saddam had WMD -- including Saddam and his generals. The Kay report makes that pretty clear.

What some on the left simply won't accept, and this is really the key, is that most of us on the right felt that Saddam should have been removed in 1998. That Clinton had made a compelling case then to remove him.  And after 9/11 we no longer had the luxury of letting him do his thing.  One thing the Kay report makes also very very clear is that as soon as sanctions were lifted, Saddam had every intention of creating chemical, biological, and ultimately nuclear weapons.

I don't expect to convince anyone that opposed what we did in Iraq that we did the right thing. But I do expect or at least hope that they will recognize that no particular politican or political party intentionally misled them in any way.  I also don't like dishonest debating (intentional or unintentional). When people mix and match the UN presentation to get a second resolution psased with the domestic debate to go to war with Iraq.  By the time Powell gave his presentation, the US had already decided it was going to go. Did anyone doubt it at that point?  Has anyone bothered to look at the 1991 Gulf War cease fire treaty? WMD was just one of many stipulations.  Just because the media fixated on WMD doesn't mean it was the main or even core point. That's why the argument otherwise is so uncompelling.

Americans did not want Saddam Hussein left in power after 9/11. It's really as simple as that. A signifcant, though minority, of Americans wanted him removed before 9/11. After 9/11 support --- demand for his removal reach the point where this democracy did what democracies are supposed to do - follow the will of the people. 

on Feb 09, 2004
absolutely Brad, and in a bit of bitterness, though not towards you, I refer everyone to my ongoing argument with a zealot from the right in Perdiction: Kerry wins big in New Hampshire.
on Feb 09, 2004

jeff allison  - one other point. When you respond to this article, you are responding to my blog. You should show a little respect on the blogs you respond to. Every blog is moderated by the author of that blog. I don't have to put up with personal abuse from you. I can delete your comments.  I won't but I could. I point this out because the same is true with any blog (including your own). The person who runs a given blog can remove comments.

I don't agree with Solitair or Wahkonta but you don't see them making rude and disrespectful responses.  I confess I should have probably jsut removed Jeff's offensive and disrespectful comments rather than make snide remarks about the left.

on Feb 09, 2004

Jeb - I agree, there zealots on both sides for sure. But speaking personally, I can deal with zealots as long as they don't start name calling me personally. Let me use Wahkonta as an example. I disagree with msot of what he writes but he doesn't go around my articles name calling me. Same for you and many others.

But on the other hand, statements like Jeff's:

Brad, I see you writhing like a fish on the beach, but you're not helping yourself any, nor anyone else for that matter.

That's so incredibly patronizing. And foolish too. If I were as infantile as he apparently thinks I am then that would make him a fool since every time *I* see a response there are several buttons by it. Why antagonize the site owner on his own blog on his own article? To what end?

T-man is working on a feature where users can black-list users from responding on their blogs by IP.  I wasn't planning to use such a feature but people like Jeff make it tempting. Each blogmaster should have control over who gets to respond to their blogs. 

on Feb 09, 2004
I think it's funny that the left is crying about how Bush 'lied,' and it seems to be their primary focus as we head into the next presidential election. Where were these people when mass graves weren't found in Bosnia? I don't remember the media screaming about lies then. The fact hasn't changed that Saddam is a MONSTER, okay, he had prisons for kids. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that's probably the most messed up thing I've ever heard of in my lifetime.
on Feb 09, 2004
"he had prisons for kids"

XR700.. did you know that 3 youths under the age of 18 were just realeased out of guantanimo bay... if i am not mistaken, that is an American institution??? and there are still at least 2 under the age of 18. Afghanistan was 2 years ago now... these would have been 10 - 15 year old kids.

That kind of thing is expected from ruthless dictators, but when i heard this about the US... that was one of the most messed up things i heard in my lifetime.

Everyone knows Saddam was a monster alright... that fact is well acknowledged... but is he the only threatening monster out there?

I wonder if Korea was sitting on 2/5 of the worlds oil reserves if the US would just ignore UN methods and invade Nth Korea? because i am pretty sure they have/want WMD, and i am pretty sure Kim is a ruthless dictator as well...

Its just a whole bunch of double standards if you ask me. If you are going to go around un-seating crazy despots, why not take them all?

BAM!!!
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