Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
Support from Clinton
Published on February 9, 2004 By Draginol In Politics
I highly recommend reading this article: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp

It is a very good article that discusses why the US went to war with Iraq in the first place.  It never ceases to amaze me that two things about the on-line world always remain true: 1) How little people know about the facts of history and 2) How willing they are to go on-line and demonstrate this.

The United States and UK went into Iraq because it believed, correctly so, that Iraq was a serious threat to the region and to the US/UK. The Kay report has been reported very selectively. What it actually says includes three  things but only one has been widely reported:

1) No weapons of mass destruction have yet been found and it is increasingly likely that none will be found.

and the part left out that should be mentioned:

2) Saddam thought he had weapons of mass destruction. His generals thought he had weapons of mass destruction. Due to internal corruption, money that was being spent to create weapons of mass destruction were diverted to other things.

3) The general strategy Saddam was going towards was to not create stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction but rather prepare the way to be able to produce them in quantity once the sanctions were lifted. That is, not have a smoking gun but get everything in place to flip a switch once the heat was off.

It is items 2 and 3 that should be remembered and yet are overlooked by the media (and amazingly there are still some people who claim there is no bias in the media).   The United States was attacked on 9/11. It was the most severe attack by a foreign entity against the United States since 1812.  The US is at war.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 directly. But that's totally irrelevant. In a post-9/11 world Saddam couldn't be allowed to stick around. The UN believed he still had weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence services from every major country thought he had WMD.  And why not? Iraq said that they had them too. When Iraq tossed out the inspectors in 1998, there were still tons of WMD unaccounted for.  Iraq refused to account for those weapons and hoped to play the stall game in the hopes that France and Russia would again take the position that sanctions should be lifted.  The people who were against the war are still against the war. The people in favor of military action are still glad we did it. Not finding WMD is completely irrelevant because a) it wasn't up to us to prove he had WMD. and His current possession of WMD was irrelevant.

But don't take my word for it. Here is something former President Clinton had to say this past year.

"When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know. So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say you got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions."

Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave the lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports. For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months, and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

In 1995 Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more. Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities--and weapons stocks. Previously it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth.

Now listen to this: What did it admit? It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability, notably, 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production. . . .

Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door, and our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it. . . .

Over the past few months, as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits, including, I might add, one palace in Baghdad more than 2,600 acres large. . . .

One of these presidential sites is about the size of Washington, D.C. . . .

It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . . .

Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction.

And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal. . . . In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now--a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers, or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam, and all those who would follow in his footsteps, will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council, and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program.

-Bill Clinton


Comments (Page 4)
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on Feb 10, 2004
Why were these children executed? If their only mistakes were political, then I guess one can compare executing children to the child prisons that were found in Iraq. However, if they were executed for committing crimes that would land an adult a death sentence, then please don't be compare that to children being incarcerated for pissing off a dictator. If you insist though, then why not demand the freedom of all prisoners, since we're not going to be differentiating between political prisoners and people who have actually caused serious harm to others.

Also, I found an article that dates back to April in which "precursors to a banned toxic agent" were found. Of course, it was probably only there for educational purposes. Also, illegal weapons have been found in Iraq, and although they were not WMDs, I don't think that they provide a valid case that Hussein fully cooperated. After all, it's a typical tactic, as I saw in a court case where this crack dealer plead guilty to the misdemeanors (which might have made her seem honest if you ignored the fact that she was also being tried on a few felonies). Maybe those jurors were all wrong in believing the evidence that clearly proved her guilt over her own words.
on Feb 10, 2004

I would argue that being a child in a childs prison is better than being a child in an adult prison, or whatever you want to call that sad excuse of a human rights violation Guantanimo bay.

Do you understand that there is a difference between a 16  year old in prison becaue they murdered someoe versus a 7 year old whose parents simply said something critical of their government?

on Feb 10, 2004
Jeb - Ah I gotcha. I failed my reading comprenension roll.
on Feb 10, 2004
I understand perfectly Brad... that isn't the issue.

The issue is that kids are in Prison... no matter what for... Kids shouldn't be in Prison. Whether it be some lunatic from Tikrit, or some Lunatic from Texas.

BAM!!!

on Feb 10, 2004
Muggaz, what's with the "BAM!!"? Are you Emerill Lagassi now?
on Feb 10, 2004
Maybe it's the sanity pills kicking in? I'm just kidding Muggaz so don't get all offended
on Feb 10, 2004

I understand perfectly Brad... that isn't the issue.

The issue is that kids are in Prison... no matter what for... Kids shouldn't be in Prison. Whether it be some lunatic from Tikrit, or some Lunatic from Texas. BAM!!!

Clearly your bamming your head into the concrete is causing brain damage.

I'll try to us simple words so that you understand because it's quite clearly going over your head:

The child, i.e. 7 year old, hasn't commited any crime at all. Do you understand? He was in jail because his parents said something unflattering about the government or annoyed the wrong person and so they punish the children of the offender.

By contrast, the 16 or 17 year old in the United States is in jail probably because he murdered someone.

Whether you think teens should be in jail or not is something I have little interest in and is irrelevant to this discussion.

on Feb 10, 2004
Jill, i am whoever you want me to be...

BAM!!!

(who is Emerill Lagassi? - reply to one of my articles, i dont want to trivialise this issue.)
on Feb 10, 2004
Do you like seeing your name in the comments section Brad?

Do you have this whack perception i advocate Saddams kiddy prisons? i dont know what you are trying to do... but we are on the same page here...

Let me 'simplify' it for you.

The Kids in Guantinimo may have killed someone (heresay - they were just with a bunch of rebels, no smoking guns.) and in MY opinion they should not be there.

The Kids in Iraq have done nothing wrong at all and in MY opinion they should not be there.

where is the issue here?

BAM!!!
on Feb 11, 2004

No offense but I really think you should leave the political discussions to the adults, Muggaz. 

You're talking 16/17 year olds compared to children under 10. I mean to me, you're a kid too. You're what? 20? So I mean, if 16 or 17 year olds are incapable of understanding what they've done and are comparable to say a 6 year old who's done nothing at all, and you're only a few years older than that I think you should agree when I say that you're really not old enough to have this complicated discussion.  If a 17 year old isn't old enough to understand what the basics of war is, then surely a 20/21 year old isn't old enough to understand the complicated issues we're discussing here.  So which is it?

Seriously though, your arguments are so rigid.  No one would suggest you are advocating Saddam's prisons. One would, however, suggest that you are not nuanced enough in your thinking yet to grasp the difference between an enemy comatant and a 6 year old child taken from his parents by a regime simply to punish the parents.  Or grasp the difference between a handful (if that) enemy combatants (i.e. teenagers with guns) being held in Guantanomo vs. entire prisons dedicated to imprisoning children.. Btw, underage Germans were held as POWs too, and has always been the case of "children" captured in battle being penned up during the course of the war. If you're old enough to be a combatant you're old enough to be taken prisoner.

If a 17 year old is a "child" then I'm sorry but what are you then? Did you suddenly morph into a man on the stroke of midnight on your 18th birthday?

on Feb 11, 2004
Going to have to jump in here, since I'm opposed to the death penalty in every case, it should be no surprise I'm opposed to juveniles being executed. However, I think most of us can recognize the difference between serving time for your crime and being put in a political prison.

Cheers
on Feb 11, 2004
One would suggest that i am not nuenced enough Brad... but only one, thank god...

BAM!!!

seriously though - it all comes back to why those kids had guns in Afghanistan... they didn't know any other way... kids, strangely enough, grow up to be like their parents, and i daresay on this occasion, their parents were supporters of the Taliban!!!

I am not entirely sure if you are familiar with Islam Brad, so i will let you know just in case - it's not really a social trend to go against ones father.

Let me draw comparison

- The Kids in Iraq were in prisons because their parents were enemies of Saddam

- The Kids in Guantanimo were in prisons because their parents were enemies of Uncle Sam

If you still think those kids should be in Guantanimo, you are far less empathatic then i would ever have given you credit for.

GRANDPA.

BAM!!!
on Feb 11, 2004
nuenced


?

- The Kids in Iraq were in prisons because their parents were enemies of Saddam


The kids in Iraq were in prisons in order to put political pressure on their families, or sometimes just because Saddam was a sadist.

Cheers
on Feb 11, 2004

Yes, I think those people should be in Guantanimo. And Yes, I am familiar with Islam, more familiar than you are with it most likely.

Look, Muggaz, you're doing it again. Just like you made yourself look ignorant during your various Vietnam claims, you're doing it here. You're showing an amazing ignorance of warfare. Throughout history, enemy combatants, regardless of age, have been taken prisoner. It's a fact of  life going back thousands of years (well they used to just kill prisoners more often or put them into slavery).   You may not like it but it's a fact of life.

On the other hand, rounding up the children of dissidents (btw, the children weren't enemies of the state, they were pawns of Saddam to punish the parents in general -- you really should do some reading on this stuff before posting) and putting them in prisons is not normal.

Moral equivalence arguments are typically used by the weak minded or inexperienced. If that's the best you can do you should run along and get back to posting about your various sexual conquests or whatever and leave discussing history and world events to the adults. Especially given that you are a self-addmited child (or just barely out of childhood).

on Feb 11, 2004
Jeb - thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.

i meant nuanced - evidently..

I am but a child though, so spelling mistakes are permitted.

oh yeah - Brad, while i dont care... i am going to pretend you hurt my feelings whith that whole child remark... and refer to you as a hypocritical fascist, because i beleive you ejected someone from this site because of personal attacks.

BAM!!!
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