Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 28)
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on Jan 03, 2005
For Carol,
It looks even better than the pictures you saw.
on Jan 04, 2005
I just wanted to follow up from my previous posts and let you know that our basement looks MUCH better. They sent out a new installer who was able to fix most of the problems in just a few days. If we had the this person from the beginning, I know we wouldn't have had the issues we have had. We are happy with the finished result, despite the fact it took a while to get there.
on Jan 04, 2005
J Kite, I think our guys expected the basement to be cleared. We shoved it all into a side that was to stay unfinished and covered it with plastic.
on Jan 06, 2005
Thanks for all the posts. Credibility is a concern with some of the info, but there are sufficient credible sounding stories regarding negative sales interactions that I'm going to cancel my OC appointment. Thank you for sharing. I have no desire to deal with it and I feel that there are reasonably safe alternatives (to the mold issue) that provide me with greater levels of DIY options and paid contracters. The solution I am leaning towards is going with a metal stud framing solution and going with either:

A. Water Resistant sheetrock gypsum panels OR
B. Foil back sheetrock gypsum panels

My house is newer and I don't have any wet basement or moisture problems currently. While mold is a concern, I feel the solution I've outlined above is adequate to address the concern for a home like mine. By the way, for DIY folks, I think the www.usg.com site has some great info. They have a whole huge handbook that is a great resource for framing and drywall. Here is a link to their homeowner content page: www.usg.com/Expert_Advice/3_5_homeanswr_center.asp

I have no affiliation with USG by the way... that seems to be a concern in some of the OC advice. In addition, I'm familiar with the Sheetrock brand but there may be alternatives. If I do it myself, I'll probably just go to Lowes, Home Depot, and a couple other places to shop their inventory and pricing.

A couple other folks mentioned this solution as an option in a couple of the posts. I want to thank them for mentioning the option which I then further researched on my own.

I may or may not return to listen to the OC folks whine about my suggestion, but I hope that others may find this of interest in evaluating their options.
on Jan 06, 2005
Thanks for all the posts. Credibility is a concern with some of the info, but there are sufficient credible sounding stories regarding negative sales interactions that I'm going to cancel my OC appointment. Thank you for sharing. I have no desire to deal with it and I feel that there are reasonably safe alternatives (to the mold issue) that provide me with greater levels of DIY options and paid contracters. The solution I am leaning towards is going with a metal stud framing solution and going with either:

A. Water Resistant sheetrock gypsum panels OR
B. Foil back sheetrock gypsum panels

My house is newer and I don't have any wet basement or moisture problems currently. While mold is a concern, I feel the solution I've outlined above is adequate to address the concern for a home like mine. By the way, for DIY folks, I think the www.usg.com site has some great info. They have a whole huge handbook that is a great resource for framing and drywall. Here is a link to their homeowner content page: www.usg.com/Expert_Advice/3_5_homeanswr_center.asp

I have no affiliation with USG by the way... that seems to be a concern in some of the OC advice. In addition, I'm familiar with the Sheetrock brand but there may be alternatives. If I do it myself, I'll probably just go to Lowes, Home Depot, and a couple other places to shop their inventory and pricing.

A couple other folks mentioned this solution as an option in a couple of the posts. I want to thank them for mentioning the option which I then further researched on my own.

I may or may not return to listen to the OC folks whine about my suggestion, but I hope that others may find this of interest in evaluating their options.
on Jan 06, 2005
Fiberock Brand Aqua-Tough interior panels also by USG are an option as well. Again, just check out the www.usg.com web site for guidelines and options.

I'm just going to get three contractors to bid using the construction materials I specify. I know metal framing is available at Home Depot. I'm presuming the USG panels (WR, Foil, or Aqua-Tough) will be reasonably available as well. This will allow some competition and skip the whole Owens Corning sales crap.... no offense to those prior posts that have it and love it or want to pursue it; I just don't want to deal with it.
on Jan 06, 2005
Last comment, looks like USG is suggesting their Humitek gypsum panels for basements.
on Jan 06, 2005
Article: New type of drywall may finally earn respect
www.constructioncontent.com/print/print_77
on Jan 07, 2005
I had OC rep the other night in Delaware. I had 355 feet of finished area. 1 door, 7 outlets, relocate ductwork, 2 windows for 27,080. If I singed right away, it was 22,433.87. I liked the system but price seemed too high. What would be reasonable cost to get job completed.

Thanks
PJ
on Jan 07, 2005
PJ The rep is way out of line on the price from what you describe.
on Jan 07, 2005
Thanks to finding this web site today, I cancelled my project - just in time. The sales guy who came to my house was very nice, althought somewhat pushy but that is sales. The biggest reason to cancel was the fact that there was too much in a price discrepancy from what I was told and what some have paid - for the identical system. For 900 square feet, I was quoted $38 a sq/ft. I do realize that people need to make money or why else would they be in buisness but at almost a $6-10 a sq/ft difference that would cost me considerably more. If they come back to me with a more reasonable offer, I would probably do the deal because I think the system is nice. I do apprecaite you folks out there who have been honest with comments.
on Jan 07, 2005
We had a rep come out the other day. He took forever to complete his pitch, but once we saw a sample of the product we were pretty impressed. We have some other work pending and were clearly not about to commit to the job that day, and he refused to give us an estimate, or even ball park it. While I found him to be annoying, we liked the product and might go for it, but I want to be prepared by know what a "good price" would be.
*** Here's my real questions:
Everyone is quoting only SQUARE FEET, but that cant be adequate for a good estimate.
(1) Is that WIDTH X LENGTH of the room, or LINEAR FEET X HEIGHT?
(2) I would assume that ceilings and walls should be separate quotes. WxL makes sense for the ceiling, and LFxH for the walls, right?
(3) What about variations and "extras": windows, doors, wiring, phone/cable lines, and free standing walls around obsticles (furnace, etc)?

on Jan 08, 2005
Ok so we had a rep out last night. Here's the figures:
Total Square Footage - 594 including a 7' X 7' bathroom (toilet, sink and shower).
OC would do walls, carpet, doors, ceiling and electrical.
Initial price - $73,000
Discount price after Buy Now discount and agreement from me to show basement 3 times over 3 years - $55000.
I'm impressed with the system but this price is way beyond other quotes I've seen here. I'm not sure it's worth spending close to a third of what I paid to buy the house.
Ken, I saw your comment about most of the posts here being lies. I'll be happy to go over the entire quote with you line by line if you think I'm just throwing numbers around or am a competitor.
Thanks
on Jan 09, 2005
I could care less!! Don't buy it!!
on Jan 09, 2005
Ken seems a bit touchy

Wow, $73K for 594 Sq Feet! Thats a ridiculous price!

Ken, if you don't care why do you keep reading this forum?

I bet you can't just go away can you?


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