Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 30)
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on Jan 20, 2005
I had the OC sales rep out to my house on Tuesday. Of course I found this website last night. I feel that the rep was not aggressive at all. He was very easy going and really answered our questions. My wife and I were really impressed with the product. The rep did offer us the showcase discount which dropped the price by about 9K. So, for a 1,000 sq ft basement which included everything except carpet and a bathroom the cost was 41K. After reading ALL the post on this site I called the rep first thing this morning to cancel my order. I feel that I can get a better price and I'm willing to play a little hardball. I explained to the rep that we loved the product but that the price was just too high for us. He asked if he could extend the payment options and I stated that it was purely the 41K that was too high. The rep thanked me for my time and got off the phone with no fanfare. I'll fill everyone in if/when the rep gets back to me. I live in southern NJ just outside of Phily.
on Jan 20, 2005
So you based your decision to cancel on this website!! You do understand that most (not all) of the info is by ex-employees and competitors of OC. It is meant for people to share thier opinions instead it has turned into a trash oc site. Good luck in getting a lower price, hopefully they read this to
on Jan 20, 2005
Fred,

I did base my decision on this site. I realize that there are people on this site that are anti-OC. The reason I canceled the order was due to a few things. The first reason was because prior to the OC sales call I did no background check on the product. The second reason after reviewing this site is I feel that I can get a better price. In my opinion if I could get 5-10K off of the price I was quoted I have nothing to lose. I also feel that the product will come down in price by nature of supply and demand. Also, once other companies start to carry this product the price will go down as well. Remember the days when the VCR was 1500 bucks? Worst case scenario I will follow up in 6 months and see what's being offered then. Does anyone know any other websites that discuss OC like this site?
on Jan 21, 2005
Jeff,

I think you might be able to get a better price...we did by a pretty good chunk, although I have heard the prices have gone up significantly (30%) at the franchise since we bought ours. I did a pretty thorough web search before buying and all I came up with in terms of forums (other than this site) was a few sites for folks talking about installing surround sound in the basement. That was about 6 mo. ago.
on Jan 21, 2005
To Jeff, the way the product is made and how the patents are written make it impossible for it to be duplicated! There is a product by Champion, the warrantys are very different, you do not have the strength of a 5 billion dollar a year company behind it who has been in business since 1938 plus they are in litigation with OC over the product (guess who will win that one) and during the year of 2004 Oc took 3 price increases. as demend goes up so does price when you are exclusive! Good luck on your basement, but bad choice based on hearsay and hopes.
on Jan 21, 2005
Matt:

Thanks for the replies. The info from you is very helpful.

A few more questions if you have time:

1) I re-read your post. I thought the doors came painted? The only painting I am expecting is for pole coverings & around duct work.

2) Any issues with the wall hanger-things? They seem a bit flimsy.

3) Another post suggested waiting 1-2 weeks before adding furniture to allow all the dust to settle first. What is your experience with the lingering dust?

4) Your basement is very large compared to the area I am finishing (500sq ft). What did you do for a dehumidifier? (suggestions for brand/size?)

Thanks

on Jan 23, 2005
I went to a home show today and OC had a trailor with the product installed. I have to say that in person the product is very impressive. It looks fantastic and the acoustics were nothing short of fabulous. In the future OC should work on there sales techniques but I think that they should setup a mini-trailor for the sales reps to show potential customers.
on Jan 25, 2005
Boston Soutie,

1) My doors were only primed, not painted. They look okay, but they are the off-white primer color, not a true white (or whatever color you may want).

2) I just hanged several pictures and the wall hanging plates worked rather well -- better than I expected. The only issue I had was the width of the tab that you hang the picture on. Some of my pictures have narrow hanging hardware that didn't fit over the tab.

3) I didn't notice any lingering dust. I moved my furniture back into the basement 2 days after they finished and I don't have any noticeable dust.

4) I have an old dehumidifier that we've used up to this point. Since it's winter I'm not using it right now, so I don't know if it will work with the OC system in place. I'll check the brand and size when I get home.
on Jan 25, 2005
We had an Owens Corning rep out this evening - at 6:30pm.. Four hours later, we are back on this site... We found this site while the sales rep was measuring our basement - and so glad we did!
The pricing (for a 350sq ft basement) was $68/sq ft... Well, the price was high enough to scare us off - depsite the aggressive attempts at getting us to committ. There certainly is a backwards marketing strategy at work... perhaps we'll push for better pricing, if we decide to go this way.. There is certainly technical merit to the system, but we're in no rush - so the whole hard ball game is going to have to wait.

A point for those trying to get rid of the salesman... At one point (after being told 100 times how "Surprised" the salesman was that we weren't ready to sign up)... I simply stated that we weren't interested and the whole "..what do i have to do to make you leave here with this car today...' strategy.. The salesman didn't have much of a response to that. Pressure is not a selling point.
on Jan 27, 2005
We are all done after a few minor glitches with local electrician (showing up) and getting started. the basement looks fabulous. We have to finish painting the doors and pole wraps and beam covers but that is minor. The carpet came from Georgia, 115 Sq Yds, cost approx. $600. commercial, no pad needed. The cost of Oc, $16500.approx. Basement finished area is about 1200 Sq. ft., four doors, 2 closets built with bifolds. 2 picture windows and exit door framed. 17 recessed lights, cable, phone, smoke detector. We had nothing in writing except original quote and what was to be done, rather vague. The work was excellent and done with amazing pride of the one man doing it all. We had no moisture problem to begin with, so that was not our aim. We loved the look of the product and it did not disappoint us. Little or no mess with the installation, but it took longer than we thought it would. Well worth the time and money. Accoustics and sound proofing to above are great. Soooo glad we decided to go with the project and were working with reputable people. If I could recommend anything, I would say to get everything on paper. Start date, list of materials, exact work to be done, (detailed).
Everything that is included in the job. Approximate finish date.
on Jan 28, 2005
Well, I had the rep out for the second time last night. The final quote from OC for a 1,000 sq ft basement was 41K. That does not include carpet or a bathroom. After going back and forth with the rep the only thing he could suggest was to cut 1/3 of the basement to finish less of an area to save money. I was not willing to cut any part of my basement off to save money though. So, the final thing we decided was to have OC do all the walls, electrical, and minor demo. The price came down by 15K. I will have to hire someone else to do the drop ceiling, bathroom, and carpet. The rep did say that after the OC walls the rest of the finishing is from products available at any Home Depot or Lowes. As an example for a 30" door they charge 475 bucks and you can buy the same door for 200 bucks. They would have charged me over 7K to do the drop ceiling which can be done by someone else for half. So, we're going to proceed and have a friend of mine do the remaining work. It seems to me that after the meeting last night it would be cheaper for everyone to just have the OC do the walls and nothing else. They mark up the rest of the project much higher than anyone would charge. And it seems that any electrician or contractor could do the rest much cheaper.
on Jan 29, 2005
Terri you are so full of crap!! You cannot buy this product installed for 13.00 a square foot. 16000 for 1200 sq. ft. No way. Just another ploy to make people feel they are getting screwed!!
on Jan 30, 2005
Sorry Steven, If I could show you the contract, I would. From what I see, people are getting taken. Maybe it's the part of the country they live in. I had to buy the carpet and would have been taken there too if I had not bought it on line for less than half of what all the local carpet stores, including Home Depot, wanted. I needed 115 Sq. Yds of carpet and got prices as high as $3000 incl. installation. For the same carpet on line... $500. and got it installed for $300. We did not have a bathroom put in. That would have raised the price considerably. Good luck and better dealing.
on Jan 30, 2005
I only wish that I had read these reviews before I had the Owens Corning sales person come over my house. My story is a repeat of what so many others are saying here. It got really ulgy with my husband and the OC-represenative that I lost sleep. In the middle of the night I find this site and seen what others have been through. As much as loved the OCBFS I could not see putting $30,000 in a basement where only 550 square feet would be finished off. If we were to sell this house in the future at best we would get 25% return on the investment not 67% as OC claims. We have children that need a college education fund. I think we'll get a much better return on that type of investment. Owens-Corning might have a nice product out there but the prices are not worth it!!!
on Jan 30, 2005
To Kay: Not worth it to you.. But to many people like myself, it is worth it. The field I work in allows me to know quite a bit about mold and problems that happen with it. What you hear is just the tip of the iceberg. Noone should pick a basement over college for the kids!! But for those of us who can afford it...It is great. Thanks OC
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