Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 31)
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on Jan 31, 2005
To Brad, I'm sure if we all could afford the OCBFS it would be great! But my point is at BEST I would get about 25% return on my investment. Most likely it would be somewhere between 15-20% return. To me that seems foolish! You're lucky if you can afford... I wish I could, but there are much better investments. If OC could come down on their crazy prices and sales tactics I would be very interested. But as for now, NO Thanks OC!
on Jan 31, 2005
Thats funny, I wonder how many OC Reps they have dedicated to posting here

I guess they work in shifts. Maybe after their high pressure sales pitch, they run home to check to see if the customer found this site.

- Brad - "The field I work in allows me to know quite a bit about mold and problems that happen with it. What you hear is just the tip of the iceberg."

What "field" is that Brad? OC Rep?
on Jan 31, 2005
Umu??? Do you have a point? Of course not. I have read the postings on this site and it seems you tried to be a know it all before and you were handled quit nicely by Stanley K on December 7, 2004!! Gee, seems you didn't have a witty response to him!! I will not partake in a battle of wits with someone who is unarmed. Write what you will... anonymous of course! But the facts are the facts. If the things that Owens Corning are saying or the representitives are lying, why have they not been shut down?? What a great story that would be..500 billion dollar a year, fortune 500 company sited by Atty. General for unethical sales practices!! It won't because what the say is true. You are such an ignorant person to think a company of that stature would RISK anything like that to sell a couple of stupid basements. Everything...Everything hthat is stated is researched and backed up..not made up. I am sure not everybody can afford it..it is not meant for everyone. But you seem to have an ax to grind.
on Feb 01, 2005
To Brad, Wow....you seem to be quite defensive towards Owens Corning. I'm starting to wonder if you do have some vested interest in the company. My opinion is the product is excellent, but the price is still excessively high! If I paid $30,000 for 550 square feet of my basement to be finished off (carpet is extra) at best I would get about a $5,000 return if we needed to sell this house. That's a fairly small return on the investment. OC is an excellent company. But as of now I will not invest in the OCBFS. From a financial stand point it makes no sense.
on Feb 01, 2005
Has anyone had problems with discoloration or "blotchy" spots on the vertical batons that hold the wall panels in place. My system was just installed and the batons have light and dark areas on them. They are not shadows. Looks like crap from across the room. The OC rep tells me that all the batons that they put up in their area (SE Mich) are like that. I checked out their display at the local shopping mall and I don't see this. I have not signed off on the job yet, but they are being a real pain about this. Anyone else have this issue with their batons??
on Feb 01, 2005
After long consideration I signed the papers last night to complete my 1,000 sq ft basement. I have to say the process was painless and the sales rep was a super nice guy. I'll keep everyone informed on how the process goes. The final price came out to be 25K.
on Feb 01, 2005
Rodney, ask for the new polymer battens and corners. They are made to match the fabric and won't fade or discolor.
on Feb 01, 2005
Stanley K, The battons that they put up are the ones that "match" the walls. They are brand new and in my opinion are defective. There should not be repeating light and dark areas on the battons. Shouldn't they be uniform from top to bottom?
on Feb 01, 2005
I have the new battons that are supposed to match the walls. These are brand new. The issue is that they are inconsistant from top to bottom. They have dark areas on them. They repeat light to dark from top to bottom. Anyone else seen this before?
on Feb 01, 2005
Just for the record, companies will often exaggerate, hide, or twist "facts" in order to get you to buy something, and Owens Corning is most certainly using this tactic in their sales strategy regarding the mold issue. They highlight the most extreme cases, and address them as if they are common. They certainly aren't the only ones to use such tactics. You see it everyday on some of the infomercials (if you're so inclined to watch infomercials every day). So, to purchase the system based solely on what Owens says is rather foolish. I know absolutely no one who has ever had medical problems that were mold related. So, as the original reviewer advises, buy this system because it's quick, clean, acoustically superior, and pleasing to your eye. If you don't care about those characteristics, or can't afford them, then there are options that are much cheaper, and probably no more inclined to make you sick than any other. I personally opted for several reasons. Cost was one, the ability to make little changes here and there during the construction process was another (I didn't feel I could comfortably do this with the Owens system), and I decided I wanted to frame in a fireplace, which I don't think would have looked right or even been possible with Owens. Nonetheless, I think the Owens system is incredibly innovative, and wouldn't discourage anyone from considering it.

And by the way, I've seen some discussion here about the ceiling panels Owens uses being available only through them, but I've sure seen something made by Armstrong that looks awfully similar at some of the area retailers, big and small.

Bill
on Feb 01, 2005
The one sentence above should read, "I personally opted for drywall for several reasons."
on Feb 04, 2005
I had a rep from Championn basement out last night. Seems they took a look at what owens had and made some improvements. I asked if any legal action had been taken against Champion by Owens over the basement system. The sales rep stated a judge found enough differences between the two to dismiss Owens case. The sales rep was very nice and there was no hard sell. Price was still pretty high so we are weighing opions. Look at Champion's system if available in your area, it seems superior.
on Feb 04, 2005
Ken: You said $41 was a good price with no egress and carpet. The installer up here just quoted me $52 a sq ft and said they cannot go lower because my room is only 252 sq feet. Seems a bit high for a box with no windows, one door, no drops or low pipes to work around.
on Feb 04, 2005
Ken: You said a good price for the product is $41 a sq ft. I just got a quote for $52 a sq ft for a 252 sq foot room. With no windows, no low pipes or anything hanging down, no carpet, no egress window, and just one door. This seems quite high based on your comment in December.
on Feb 04, 2005
Well, 41.00 is a good price. 52.00 because the room is smaller, but, having said that I believe that franchise is called National Energy Systems(NES) they do try to work with thier customers as much as they can . If you call and explain your concern and that you can only afford 41.00 a sq. ft. No egress, clean easy job. Something might be done. Good luck
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