Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 33)
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on Feb 14, 2005
Jean,

Can't answer your questions from personal experience, but the basement I saw in person was rather nice looking, though it does have a somewhat office-cubicle feel. If you're an artsy type who gets bored with the same look easily, you might not be satisfied with this system. One thing I would take a serious look at is the lighting included in the price. I think that what you are getting is a fairly low level of light. My estimate included 10 recessed lights, but my current contractor (I opted for drywall) and I have discussed this, and we're thinking something closer to 16 might be more appropriate. Recessed lights do not put out a large amount of light.

And one other point I'd like to make is that with a damp basement, I do believe you will be required to run a de-humidifier to satisfy the warranty on this system, at least that's what the homeowner of the system I saw stated. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.

Best of luck,
Bill
on Feb 14, 2005
I just had one room in my basement done with the Owens Corning Basement System and overall I am NOT happy with it. First there was the high pressure sales pitch that was akin to negotiating for a used car. The guy was in our house until after 11PM pressuring us and every time we refused to by he would call his 'manager' to see if he could get us a lower price or 'special deal'. We go 10% off, then another 5% off. Finally we agreed to pay about $39/sq ft. Granted, the room we chose to do was complicated with lots of angles and low pipes to work around and they had to build a wall and add a door. It was more than we wanted to pay, but figured it would be nice to just be done with it and have a professional job. Wrong! The installers were only interested in getting done as fast as possible. The initial spec was very vague and allowed a lot of room for 'interpretation' so the installers just did whatever they though was easiest. The electrical installers even put a light switch 3' from the entrance to the room. They pressured my wife into signing off on their work (I wasn't home). When I complained the next day, they refused to come back to fix it saying that 3' is the maximum distance allowed by code. To his credit, the main installer fixed the problem with the switch position. But he also took a lot of shortcuts and didn't communicate what he was doing. When done some of the walls were not straight, a lot of the moulding didn't fit well, the ceiling tiles didn't fit well, some of the walls were dented, there were not enough lights, etc. He tried to pressure me into signing off on the job, but I picked out the most obvious problems and made him fix them. He was really upset when he couldn't get all the problems fixed that day and had to come back the next day. He made me feel like a jerk for pointing out 'picky' problems like dents and moulding not fitting well, so eventually I just signed off and let him go. I think he could have done a better job, but I also think that the system was 'over hyped' and does not live up to the claims made by the salesman. They said it was dent resistant, but I found several dents that were created just by the installer himself. The installer even recommended taking the panels down before moving furnature. The dents cannot be fixed except by replacing and entire panel. At least with drywall you can patch a dent and repaint if necessary. I figure that I will try to make the system last 5 years, then I will tear it all out and replace with drywall. I feel I was ripped off and embarrased to have paid so much for such crap! By-the-way the installers were 'The Basement Experts'
on Feb 14, 2005
OC could make billions on this system if the prices were not so out of this world. I feel sorry for Elmer and all those who paid the ridicules prices. And for all those on this site who defend this system and if OC is their business or income, I feel contempt for. It's just my personal opinion.
on Feb 14, 2005
OC could make billions on this system if the prices were not so out of this world. I feel sorry for Elmer and all those who paid the ridicules prices. For anyone on this site who defends this system and if OC is their business or income, I feel contempt for. It's just my personal opinion.
on Feb 15, 2005
Do not feel contempt for us. We did 250 million last year and will double that this year! Hey Elmer, what the hell are ya doing signing off on a project that isn't up to your standards??? For what you pay for this project it should be done perfect, who care if some is upset at coming back the next day, or the next or what ever. Your money, you are king. As drywall and the mold issue as well as other issues come to the forefront this product becomes more of a hotcake! Drywall is so yesterdays technology and still insafe for a basement. Codes become different etc. This price will not go down, unlike tv which has many producers. This only has one. The Champion product though simalar is not the same. If you can't afford, fine. We are doing just fine.
on Feb 15, 2005
was just about to have a free estimate, spoke to a girl, who told me my wife needs to be their, It's my house!!!! I pay for things, I gathered they would be aggressive, Rather avoid them...
on Feb 15, 2005
To just about to: Do you think we do this for our health. We need both people there because no one buys without a spouse present. just looking...great...look somewhere else...of course it is free, but we are not in the demonstrating business..what the hell do you people expect..we come out..give you a three hour demonstration, you tell us how much you love the product and not expect us to ask for an order!!! or to try to make it affordable so that you can put it in...DO NOT WASTE OUR TIME..some of you do. "I am looking for next year. or three years from now or well, we haven't really thought about how we will pay for it or we have know idea what we want to do"..what the hell is wrong with you people? Do you waste everyones time..if you are interested..have us out. if you are curious..forget it.. it is too much..put in drywall and ignore the science...that way you can piss and moan with the rest the losers on this forum that believe drywall is ok and OC is full of baloney..just don't waste our time. There are plenty of people interested that want to buy...who are educated on mold and understand the problems. Stanley is right, we can't keep up..please do us all a favor and and do not ask us out..we will all be better for it. Yes, I do work for OC.
on Feb 15, 2005
I continue to read about how terrible everyones sales rep was. In all sales each company has procedures that their employee's must follow. I think the last thing that should scare someone away from the initial presentation is having your wife there. I pay all the bills and I will always pay all the bills but that does not mean my wife should not have any say in the matter. ALso, the OC product needs to be explained to be understood. It's a specialty product and it's not going to be for everyone. Anyone can choose drywall and do it that way. They may never have a problem with it. I'm getting tired of hearing everyone crying about the process. This is a free country and no one has to have someone in there house that they don't want. No one has to sign off on a job that they are not 100% satisfied with. Its a shame that this site could offer so much good info for everyone but it seems to be more of a bitchfest.
on Feb 15, 2005
To the folks out here who are associated with OC: Quite frankly, nothing makes one more suspicious about a product than the hard sell. I was on the boardwalk at Venice Beach this summer, and a vendor tried to sell me a little remote control car. The price started at $25. By the time he was done, it was down to $5. Point being, when you sell something in that manner, no one knows what the thing is really worth, so a seed of suspicion is planted, and you are immediately put on the defensive to avoid being "taken." If this product is so good, then why doesn't OC just give out "traditional" estimates like any other contractor would, and if you can afford it fine, if not, fine as well. Perhaps they could offer some different payment plans instead of the hard sell. Furthermore, the folks that come to your house are salespeople, not construction experts. They can offer little in advice regarding construction options (I know this from experience - my rep had no idea how to box in the steps so I still had access underneath). Most people do not know exactly what they want to do in a basement reconstruction project, so faulting customers for expecting some input is a ridiculous attitude. In general, the people out here are trying to describe their experiences so others might benefit. You OC folks are still in sales mode. And no one needs to know the history of OC to decide whether or not to buy, so a three or four hour presentation is totally unnecessary. Most folks put up with it because they aren't rude enough or aggressive enough to speed the presentation along. You keep thinking there's a valid point coming at any moment. My "traditional" contractors who gave estimates were in and out in 1/2 hour at most. This OC system might be the best basement system in the world, but if it is really as good as you assert, then it should rely more on it's own merits than the sales games. I'm betting you OC folks wouldn't appreciate someone coming to your house with this same routine. And I'm also betting that none of you know anyone who has been affected by a mold problem in their drywall-finished basement.
on Feb 16, 2005
about that $40K/$28K net job. the maximum commission would be $3920.
on Feb 16, 2005
about that $40K/$28K net job. the maximum commission would be $3920.
on Feb 16, 2005
about that $40K/$28K net job. the maximum commission would be $3920.
on Feb 16, 2005
What I don't understand why there is a different price for each homeowner..We really wanted the system but are you really going to pay 17.000 for a 20x12 room. I just can't believe all the prices I am seeing on this web. I think Owen should just sell it at the hardware stores. They would make alot more money on their product because of the ridiculous bid you guys are giving us.l Money is not easy to make. I am going with drywall because I would need my head examined if I would spend 30,000 or 40,000 to finish my whole basement. I am writing to Owens and telling them how I feel. No I am not going to get MOLD in my basement because now we are going to build a closet around 3/4 of or basement just big enough to put a shelf in and I can walk through and lover doors and cut out boxed window opens to match my windows in the back and I will be able to air it out....This is what I got to do because this product is being not sold properly... By the way our salesman was very nice and I think he felt bad to give out these horrible prices... He never once raised his voice at us. Joan
on Feb 16, 2005
You people do not get it..we are a sales organization!!!..we sell this product...96% of you great contractors out there fail in the first five years..they are out of there so quick because they sell a product everyone else does...you can buy sticks and drywall and insulation and do a basement..this is not what this is...read the facts and do the research and if you still believe drywall or anything with cellulose is fine in your basement you deserve exactly what you get.
on Feb 17, 2005
It's unfortunate a product of this supposed high quality must be sold using high-pressure, mind-bending, scare tactics. I ask again, do any of you OC folks out here know personally of any cases where mold due to basement drywall has had an adverse impact on anyone? And while we're at it, did you grow up in a house with a finished basement? Any horror stories about it?
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