Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 35)
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on Feb 22, 2005
I'm going with the drywall. A salesman came to my home last week and gave a very professional presentation. There was no hard sale but the price he quoted was way-too-much. For approx. 1000 sq.ft. I was quoted $37K. Keep in mind this was with no bathroom no interior walls, no carpet.....nothing than the basic stuff. First of all I plan on moving within the next three to four years and everyone knows that only a very small fraction of what is spent an the basement is recouped when selling. Second, I can spend almost half on a typical drywall basement and get added rooms, a full bath, and the smooth wall look, etc. Outside of two settling cracks in my basement walls over the past 5 years (the age of the house) I am comfortable with drywall (insulation) and wood. No one will argue that mold is bad, but I will not make a bad financial decision based on fear. Also, with a major investment like this who cares if it takes 2 weeks or 2 months (unless your on a reality TV show building homes).
on Feb 22, 2005
I agree with MI Mike on the comment about a small fraction of your money will be recouped when selling your home. OC started out at about $30,00 for 550s.f., then reduced it to 25K,then to about 19.5k, now they are telling me it can be done for about 18.3K or 14.5 for the wall only. Still they cannot argue about the fact that only a small fraction of my money will returned on my investment if we need to sell this house. I suppose if you were planning on staying in your home for the rest of your life and money was no option it would be worth it. But that is just not the case with the majority of us.
on Feb 23, 2005
I am in the final phases of finishing my OCBFS with a Long Island distributor/licensee (a company by the name of Alure Home Improvement). Everything has been terrific so far, albeit a little expensive.

I was able to negotiate a price of $45,000 for almost 800 sq ft of finished space (complete with flooring, eletrical and an egress added to bring it to code). They are also doing a full bathroom (with shower) for another $20,000.

Did I do OK with this or did I leave some money on the table?
on Feb 23, 2005
Yes Jim but all means take advice to heart from this web site. Don't forget to ask the Quija board...
on Feb 23, 2005
Jim's comments confirms that the pricing is relative to were you are living. Obviously the real estate/home prices are much higher in NY (long Island) than in Michigan.
on Feb 24, 2005
Has anyone heard that it takes 4-6 weeks to get the permits from the township before OC begins the work?
on Feb 24, 2005
Jeff,

My contractor (not for an OC basement) had to get permits for my basement remodel a month or so ago, and he was told that this time of year has a relatively short turn-around time, but it could take a few weeks during busier times. As it was, it took us about four days to finally get them to sign off on the plans. Depending on where you live, they can be pains in the rear. Some townships require more detailed plans than others, so that no doubt affects the turnaround time as well.

on Feb 27, 2005
I was interested to read of your experience with the OC basement system. I was considering it for the area we're finishing off for an office but (FYI to anyone considering this) they took one look at my area and said it was too small for them (it's maybe 150 SqFt). They don't do anything less than about 500 SqFt.

At least I was spared the sales ptich.
on Feb 28, 2005
What area are you from?? There is no limit on sq. ft. Unless the franchise has set personal limits.
on Mar 02, 2005
First off, fantastic information everyone.

I recently purchased the Owens Corning Basement System, and I wanted to share my experience.

- Our basement: 1200 sq feet total, finishing 775 sq feet

- Sales pitch/demo took over 3 hours, 4 hours total with paperwork

- Salesman admitted to reading and participating in these Joe User discussions, so keep that in mind

- He knew we did our homework and we were quoted $30 per sq foot from the get go. This included: drop ceiling, 4 6-panel doors, all permits, all electric (lights,switches, etc) and of course the wall system itself. This DID NOT INCLUDE: flooring.

- After reading these postings we knew we didn’t have much room for negotiations on the sq foot price, so we negotiated in finishing a closet (under the stairway) which included another door and another light/switch.

- Since every price also revolves around the choices you make, I will outline our choices here for you to compare apples to apples. Lighting: 2x4 Recessed fluorescent lights (5 total), 1x2 Recessed fluorescent lights (2 total, in closets). Electric: 12 standard electric outlets plus 2 GFIs. Cable: 2 cable jacks. Phone: 0 phone jacks. Other: 1 hardwired smoke detector, 1 hardwired carbon monoxide detector. Doors: 30” doors (5 total).

- Doors are primed (white) but not painted.

- All misc sheetrock/wood used is primed (white) but not painted.

We are in central NJ. I hope this information is helpful is your negotiations. Best of luck!
on Mar 03, 2005
I live in Maryland. We were considering an Owens Corning basement about a year ago. As many have stated, the price and the salesmen turned us off. I looked into a Champion basement as suggested by some because it seemed to be a similar product. Unfortunately, although they have an office in my area, they are not working on basements yet. Going outside the area is not a possibility since they will only travel 50 miles....does anyone know of a contractor who will install a similar product....thanks
on Mar 03, 2005
We just had Owens Corning out here and I think the sales rep did a good job. The product looks good and I must say that I liked it. The price started out at $47K and was finally dropped to $31K after a $3K coupon, a call to his boss, a committment to show the basement one day next year, using a flex schedule (means using some workers when they can't work at somebody else's home that day), and a couple other discounts. The sales rep came up with some ideas to reduce the square footage to help us save more money. Anyway, the square footage being finished was 976sq ft so it was $32.18/sq ft. His quote only included electrical, walls, ceiling, and doors. They would not do the bathroom, wet bar, or L-shape counter for a computer area. I also have one quote for a drywall basement. He finished the basement in my last house so I know he does good work. Anyway, his quote was $25K or $20.73/sq ft. His square footage was 1200 sq ft. His quote included the same in addition to a finished full bath, a small wet bar, and an L-shape counter top for a computer area. Neither the OC or the drywall quote included carpet.

But I did want to mention that the OC sales guy did a good job. If they could market this product more cheaply, I think it would sell better. My husband and I are still mulling the idea over. We still want to get a couple more quotes to make us feel better about our decision.

Hope you found this helpful.
on Mar 04, 2005
I was wondering where the supply place for the product is...
on Mar 04, 2005
There is no Supply place it Come from Owens Corning In OHIO!!!!
on Mar 08, 2005
Another thing I am wondering when Owens sends a sales person to your home and when he gave us our quote he did not specfiy who the installers were if it was a company or what. I would like to do research on the company that does the installing..I did not ask but I was wondering if you are told the name of the company...I live in St. Louis, Mo...I would like to check the BBB on them... Any comments welcomed...
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