Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
My review and experience with it
Published on May 1, 2005 By Draginol In Home Improvement

If you decide you want to finish your basement there are lots of options to consider.  Do you do it yourself? Do you contract it out? Maybe do a little in between? For me and my wife, we just aren't handy enough to try to finish a basement on our own.  So we decided we'd contract the whole thing out.

Once you decide you're going to contract it out, then it's a matter of deciding what direction to take with it. Do you go with drywall? The problem with drywall is that it takes months to put in (how long do you want contractors going in and out of your house?).  It makes a lot of mess (expects months if not years of drywall dust to be floating around your house), it's susceptible to damage from a wide range of sources (water, normal wear and tear due to it being in a basement).  So we wanted our basement finished but drywall had a lot of negatives to it.

That's when we heard about the Owens Corning Basement System.  After intense negotiations, we had it done.  And below you can read about our experiences during the sales process, installation, and after effects.  I hope you find it useful.

The Owens Corning Basement System has been in place now for our basement for about a month now so I've had time to get used to it.

The project went pretty smoothly except for a few hiccups that I'll talk about here. So what's the verdict? Here are the things I really liked about it:

  1. It's fast. In 2 weeks it's all done.
  2. It's clean. No dry wall dust all over.
  3. It's durable. It's virtually impossible to damage. Basements, unlike the rest of the house, are more prone to dings since that's where most people store things too.
  4. It's virtually sound proof. This was an unexpected benefit. But the kids can go and play down there without having to hear music, TV, yelling throughout the house.
  5. It looks pretty nice still (but not as nice as dry wall in my opinion).
  6. It is nice to know that in 20 years it'll look the same as today. Dry wall in basements tend to not look so good. At best you'll have to repaint larger areas. With this, you don't have to.

The big thing for us though was the speed of it. My first basement was done with dry wall and I have no regrets about that. It was nicely done. But it took months to do and over a year for the house to stop having more dust in it than before. The dry wall dust simply gets everywhere.

If you're as unhandy as me, then you likely want contractors to do pretty much all the building. It can be uncomfortable having strangers in your house for months. In contrast, the Owens Corning Basement System was installed in our roughly 1100 to 1200 square foot area in about 2 weeks (closer to 10 days).

In short, I was willing to pay a premium to not have to deal with a summer of construction. The fact that it looks nice and can't be damaged easily was a real bonus. My 3 year old already put that to the test by taking a permanent marker to one of the walls. In a few minutes we were able to wipe it off with some bleach and you can't even tell where it was. Contrast that to having to repaint that area with a dry wall basement. Not to mention all the nicks and gouges that would be there due to moving stuff down there.

That said, here are things that I ran into that I didn't like that you should be aware of:

I really didn't like the sales strategy of their sales people. High pressure combined with little specifics created a lot of headaches during the project.

First off, people who can afford to pay a premium for their basement being done aren't fools. Even so, they used the same tactic on us as they would on some gullible yokel. No offense, but the reason we can afford this stuff is because we have some financial savvy. So don't march into our houses with magazines showing that the "Average" basement costs over $50 per square foot to finish. Because that's nonsense and does more to harm your sale than anything else. Sure, if you're going to have bathrooms and kitchens and tiled areas and wet bars and such it will cost more, but the Owens Corning System doesn't take care of any of that. They just do the "walls", drop down ceiling, electrical, and a few other things. They're not going to build you a bar or tile your floor for you (unless you make a special deal with them). Just for reference, a typical basement done with dry wall with nothing too fancy done shouldn't cost much more than $20 per square foot. Our last dry wall basement cost around $17 per square foot.

The price you should try to get with the Owens Corning Basement System is somewhere between $25 and $35 per square foot. They may balk at $25 but $35 they should certainly take. I paid about $28 per square foot. $30 per square foot would be good. Anything much higher and you're paying too much. Which is why they do the high pressure tactic to get you to sign right there.  To the sales guy's horror, I made him sit there while I had my laptop doing net searches on how much other people have paid. By the way, be aware that most states do have a law that allow you to back out of contracts within 72 hours. So if they did manage to get you to commit for $55 per square foot or something you aren't up the creek.

The second thing I didn't care for was the amount of vagueness to the agreement. Because of the high pressure sales tactics, the sales guy didn't write down a lot of our specific needs on his "agreement" (which was literally just a 1 page form he hand wrote notes on which I was pretty unhappy about). For instance, we said we wanted padded carpet so he suggested Home Depot. Which we did. But they didn't cut the doors so that they would fit on padded carpet so when we put in the carpeting, we had to take off the doors. It took us 3 weeks to get them to make good on this. They argued it wasn't their responsibility to fix the doors. Nonsense. We told them up front that we were going to get padded carpet. For us to fix would have meant bringing in another contractor. They agreed to fix it only after I made it clear that I would ensure that my experiences with the Owens Corning Basement System would show up high on google. It took the guy 30 minutes to fix it once he dropped by. So they made good but it did mar an otherwise fairly seamless experience.

So make sure that you are clear (and document) exactly what they do and what they expect you to do. The Owens Corning contractors don't tend to do as much as regular full service basement contractors. They weren't planning on putting in our phone and cable lines for example but luckily that was written into that agreement.

Thirdly, the only negative I've run into since putting it in is that it is, contrary to what they said, not that easy to hang things up on the walls. Since they're not drywall, you can't just put in a nail and put stuff up. You have to use special clipper thingies. These work nice on light things. But they didn't give us any samples or directions or order forms to get things for putting up heavier items (like a big white board for example). This has been a source of some ire since it's turning out not easy to find these "mending plates" in low quantities. Office Max and Staples don't seem to have them. None of the hardware stores we've looked at have them. I've looked on the net and I can buy them in quantity (like 1000 at a time) but I only need like 5. My suggestion is to insist that they provide you with 100 of the t-pins (small stuff) and 100 mending plates (big stuff) as part of the agreement.

Fourthly, this gets back to the "customers are suckers" sales pitch. The sales guy and his materials really went hard on the mold scare tactic. Mold is definitely something not to blow off. But it should not be your motivating factor to spend a third again as much on a basement. Would you pay $15000 more on your house for a "lightning strike resistant" design? The kinds of houses most people who would put this stuff in are usually newer and on the premium side. The basements, in short, don't get wet very easily. That isn't to say they shouldn't mention mold, but it should be more of a "bonus" feature rather than as the principle selling point.

Now that it's all done, I'm pretty happy with it. I like knowing that I won't have to mess around with painting or touching up the basement in a few years. I do wish it was easier to modify with other things. For instance, I can't just build out a bar from it. But that is no biggie really. The basement does what it was supposed to do. And even better, since I want to have a theatre down there eventually, it's got incredible acoustics. If you have the money and are more interested in having your basement be finished quickly and cleanly rather than having some incredible basement palace created, this is something you should seriously consider.

Completion date: September 2003.

Update: September 2005: I have created a second article for people who want to share their experiences (good and bad) with the Owens Corning Basement System. GO HERE to discuss.

update: 10/2003 - still pretty happy with the basement. thanks for all your emails. if you have any questions, ask them in the comments area or you can email me at bwardell@stardock.com.

update: 5/1/2005 - still happy with how it's turned out. I get a  lot of email on this stuff from people, I don't usually get to answer it. But I will say that we are happy with it still. It absorbs sound. But I maintain that the main reason to get it is that you want to save time. If you don't mind having people working on your basement for 6 to 10 weeks and the drywall dust and other dirt that is inevitable with dry-wall then get the dry-wall.  But for me, having it all over in a week or so was the key and no mess afterwards.


Comments (Page 36)
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on Mar 08, 2005
Owens Corning is starting our basement tomorrow at 8am. After doing all the research and probably reading each and every reply on this blog we are EXCITED! We were told it would take 2 weeks to complete a 1K basement. I'll keep everyone posted on the progress.
on Mar 08, 2005
Joan: Most Franchise use thier own people, very few if any use sub-contractors. So check the francise name they do and are responsible for the installation. Good Luck.
on Mar 10, 2005
I started considering Owens Corning about six months ago and even after reading the postings on this site I still called them out to have a look. (You see I finally came to the realization that most of the negative stuff is just frustration from people that can't or better won't afford themselves the best long term solution.) I can only say I'm glad I did. The guy that came out was great, although the process was long I got what I wanted.

My approach:

1. You get what you pay for: hey the price isn't the cheapest but better technology costs money, my 5 year old Sony tv has a perfectly good picture but I'm going to buy a flat panel because it's better. Same goes for replacing my old PC. (as technology can improve my life I take advantage of it)

2. Depreciation vs Appreciation, the two "investments" I just mention lose value over time, so does my car yet I'm conditioned that that's OK. Well my Real Estate value keeps going up an I know I can't lose , I'll get what I put in and than some--every time. So I'm going with what's guarenteed not to become a liability.

3. Knowledge is power: I got 3 drywall quotes before I called Owens. All from recommended sources w/no florring. The first one was really inexpensive and turned out to be more of an "estimate" after I received it in writting. (I didn't feel comfortable with the guy any way he came in at about $22 sqft) #2 was via a family freind and happens to be one of the best contractors in the area. Even with the family connection he was way high. When I confronted him he admitted he was only offering as a "favor", wasn't in the basement business, had more profitable work for his crew and was hopping I'd say NO to the price because the few times he'd done a basement early in this carreer it turned out to be a nightmare. (all in all if I was willing to pay, he was willing to do the work at about $65 sqft) Lastly a contractor freind of mine who finishes a few basements every year gave me a fair price about $35 a sqft but when I asked his opinion (as a freind) he confided that Owens had a great product, he'd be using it if he could and that if I could get it for around $50 a sqft it would be the right way to go.

4. The Appointment: Thursday at 6:30, the "designer" (Fred) shows up right on time, asks a few questions and we go down stairs. He asks me what I'm thinking of (little does he know) for the space so we discuss some options and he starts measuring and gives me a little info about how they do things and that I can expect it to be more than a "traditionally built out" basement. We go back up stairs and he pulls out all kinds of stuff and begins drawing a floor plan. I'm thinking this is going to take forever ( about 15 min) but it turned out perfect because my wife and I had something to help us visualize with. Then he pulls out an old fashioned flip binder and begins the pitch. Yada, Yada, Yada, nothing I hadn't read already but my wife liked it. (guess I forgot to pass the knowledge along to her) Actually it reconfirmed why I like it.

5. Pricing; after about 10 minutes of calculations Fred finnally hit us with the pice, thank God I knew what to expect cause it was high. To his credit he had warned us up front that there were some "intcentives" available. Fred discounted, talked to us about an"open house" and made a call about someting else. --I didn't care the price was comming down --- in fact I felt bad for Fred --- anyway the price was now at about $48 a sqft I was happy, Fred was packing up and I did the deal.

I had to come to terms that the costs in the Boston area are out of wack with almost everywhere. Ive read the postings from the Midwest talking about $37 a sqft and I don't beleive it can be done around hear. ( new houses sell for $200 - $300 sqft around here) At $48 sgft I know my basement will be worth at least $90 sqft the day it's completed and appreciate up from there. ---Thats a good investment.

My advise: do your homework for the area your in, don't waste your time or their's hoping for a price that can't happen, be prepaired to know an acceptable deal when you see it, make the deal your comfortable with, enjoy the fact that it's the best stuff available and that you've got it your home ( I like low low maintainence things, one stop shopping convenience and short install times)

Best of luck -- I'll be installed by July 4 and report back -- so far it's all good
on Mar 10, 2005
I just wanted to comment about Mark in Ma post. Wow....that's great if you can get about $90 sqft return on your investment! I live in Michigan. The area I'm at homes are selling for about $140- $170 sqft. The best quote OC could give me was around $30sqft, and that seems like a deal compared to your $48sqft. But the problem is at best my return on the investment would be about $7.2sqft. Just goes to show you that every area is so different. I would take a great loss, but in your area of Boston you would profit!! I'm still declining because of the small return on the investment. I'm glad it works out for you!
on Mar 14, 2005
I saw the OCBS system at the Hartford home show this weekend, and it appeals to me on many levels. I have zero tolerance for aggravation, and have put off having my basement fisished for years because I just don't want to have to deal with contractors coming in and out for months, the mess, and all of the minute details that will need to be decided... lighting fixtures, doorknobs, etc. YUCK! Now I finally have to get it done, child #3 is on the way and the time has come.

I would love to hear from anyone in the Hartford area who has used our local OCBS franchise, which is in Wethersfield. I am hoping they are better to deal with than alot of the salespeople encountered by other users of this site. I would like to have about 750 square feet finished into three rooms. Any insight you CT people out there can give me would be much appreciated before I set up the appointment for a quote.
on Mar 21, 2005
We *just* got our basement finished with OC. In September, I started calling around and received quotes from 3 'drywall' basement contractors and 1 from OC. I was asking for walls, ceilings, electricity, carpet, and egress window. The egress was a biggie since we also have a Pulte home with weird basement walls and it wasn't just a straight forward 'cut open the wall and stick a window in it' type of thing. The 2 quotes we ended up seriously looking at were one of the drywall quotes and the OC. We liked the system - lots of advantages - but I wasn't super keen on having 'cubicle walls' in the basement. The pricing was very comparible - we actually got more with the OC pricing than the drywall since the drywall standard quote was for drywall ceilings rather than panels. Panels would've increased the drywall price. We decided on the OC.

The egress window caused us problems due to the lack of understanding on the part of the contractors on what they had to do. This (and holidays and vacation) delayed the start of the basement until early February (contract was signed early November).

The work was started, then halted - again due to the egress window.

Finally, a general manager from OC jumped in and took over the management of our installation - got a skilled contractor to do the egress, and we were off. The basement install actually took about a week. Add the egress and carpeting and total was 2.5 weeks.

Complaints:
One big one... the salesman was HORRIBLE!!! We had already done the research on OC and were familiar with it. All we wanted was a quote. He tried using the "offer is only available if you sign today" ploy, but husband told him where to go on that one. We needed to talk about the pros & cons of the offers on the table and weren't about to do it in front of him! We came very close to having it written in the contract that we'd sign with them if we never had to talk to that moron again!!!

He called in December to see how we were enjoying our basement {rolleyes}.

Kudos:
Once we got the right people working on the basement - and managing the installation - things went very smoothly. We were very involved with the egress window since it appeared no one else was willing to jump in and figure it out. Once I put together the 'how to' document on installing our egress window and the right contractor was called in, there were no problems.

Bottom line:
I love having the basement finished... had we gone with drywall, we would've now moved into the painting stage. At this point, we just move in. We also want to add cable & phone downstairs at a later date - easily done with the panels. We may eventually add a bathroom - again, easy enough to move the walls out to finish it out.

I'm still not keen on how to hang things up - the curtains were the first quandry. We're hanging them from the window frame rather than outside the frame. We'll see how mounting of other items go.
on Mar 21, 2005
Our experience was horrific. the basement is horrible too much to the story to post..........everything was high pressure and they did not follow through on alot of thier promises......did anyone else out there have any problems with the franchise in chester PA? If so please contact me would like to know.....mine has been filled with nothing but stress, heartache and very dissapointed in how we were treated......I trusted in them spent my hard earned money and was left with nothing more then hassle, and a basement we are not happy with.......please email me at RSpone@comcast.net
on Mar 22, 2005
Can't access the site to read the comments. Is it being blocked?
on Mar 22, 2005
To Jester: You need to contact Owens Corning ASAP. If your post is true! There is no way that OC will let anything like your experience happen!! Trust me when I tell you that you will be satisfied..Look forward to your communique.
on Mar 23, 2005
Stanley I did TRUST me and they avoid everything......I have done everything I can do from corporate to BBB to attorney gerneral......not easy when people don't return phone calls ect...............I am trying to keep on this site more but I have trouble accessing this board....so if I don't reply you can email me.......there is soooo much to the story and it is so disturbing how much people lie..........and they seem to get away with it....and all I am left with is space that is not usable........
on Mar 23, 2005
In reading Eller Millers complaint I can soooo understand how you feel......I wish these things had emails....PLEASE if you should read this email me!!!!!!!!!!! RSpone@comcast.net..............
on Mar 23, 2005
Salesman is supposed to be here in about 20 min. I was clear with the "appointment confirmer" that I did not want to hear about the history of OC, or the hazards of mold. I have done my homework, all I want is a quote on walls only.

I figure he will have to measure for himself (I already made a sketch) and work up the numbers. If this takes more than 1hr I will be asking him to leave.
on Mar 23, 2005
Well he just left. Here is my version of what happened.

First, read my previous post concerning what I did and didn't want to hear. When he arrived and got settled in I asked him if he had talked to the "appointment confirmer" about my requirements. He said he had not, so I told him, " I have read the info, researched the net, I know about your product. I don't want to hear about the history of OC and I am a Certified Industrial Hygienist and a Certified Safety Professional so I don't need to hear about mold. All I really want is an estimate for walls only. I will do everything else myself"

He began talking about OC and mold. I had to stop him numerous times. But he kept asking me if I was aware of all the material that promotes mold growth in the common basement. After I asked him to PLEASE save us both time and just measure my basement and give me an estimate, he proceeded to tell me that he was a professional and that he did not appreciate someone telling him how to do his job, "in fact" he said " I am also an attorney, don't let this job or the fact that I am wearing jeans fool you into thinking that I am not intelligent".

I again stated that I had the utmost respect for his profession and all I wanted to do is find out if I could afford the product in my house. He said that " if you are so informed you should be able to figure out how much it is going to cost". Since I don't get to write my own quotes I tried to let him know that I could not possibly know the cost without an estimate from him, so how would I know if I could afford it until he gave me an estimate.

He asked if I would like to see the video, I told him I saw it already and I described the video to him. He said that I was describing the correct video but "why don't you watch it again". I told him I don't watch movies that I like twice so I don't need to see the video. PLEASE just measure and give me an estimate for WALLS ONLY.

He was dumbfounded. Over the course of the next hour he must have asked me 15 times "so, all we are doing is the walls ?"
He then proceeded to tell me that they had to do the electrical or else it wouldn't be code (I am also a National Electrical Code - NFPA 70 - instructor) I told him that was incorrect so he called his boss to see if it was okay for me to do the electrical myself - boss said yes.

Now we go to the basement for an assessment. I ask him why he is leaving his tape measure on the table and he says that he isn't ready to measure yet, he has to check the condition of my basement first. So down we go.

The area of my basement that I want finished measure approx. 18' x 30' and is dry clean poured concrete. No water problems, no cracks. He looks around and starts talking about mold and asking about the ceiling and the electrical , JESUS doesn't this guy speak english.

We go upstairs and he heads out to his car to get the samples. He brings in wall and carpet samples and proceeds to tell me about the benifits of the carpet system. I notice that the carpet looks like it might be the equivalent of a vapor barrier and he launchs into a description of something, not sure what, but it left me wondering if this guy knew what a vapor barrier was.

Back to the basement for measuring, and more measuring. Back upstairs, he asks about electrical, doors, ceiling. !!!!!!!!!!

He does some numbers, tells me about how much return the average home owner gets on basement remodeling (79%- yea right) then gives me the long awaited information------ 13,700. I say thanks, thats all I need to know, can't afford it. He gets alittle poopy picks up his stuff , refuses any help carrying it out and announces "just show me the door" so I did.

Here are a few line items of interest:

1. Warranty - would not let me see it or read it unless I signed a contract
2. Price for doing only the walls, NOTHING ELSE - 36.00 / ft2
3. His written estimate as promised by the company was the number 13,700 written on a yellow piece of paper- thats it
4. I asked about the cost of replacement panels should one get damaged- told me he didn't know
5. He stated the the system is MOLD PROOF ( I asked him to repeat that statement twice)
6. I asked him what the insulation portion of the system was made out of - he said he didn't know

That about wraps up the meeting, 1 hour 45 minutes of unpleasantness. ( at least it wasn't 3-4 hours)

Just for info I live in ohio.
on Mar 23, 2005
My one big question is how do they get away with this?????? I just don't get it....I wish I would have known about this site first I never would have done it.......maybe I am just too trusting......but as consumers is there nothing that protects us??????
on Mar 24, 2005
Thanks for all the great comments here. We had a basement system rep at our house last night. I guess I am slow, but I didn't realize that the panel walls were in fact a sort of cloth and not a hard material. Cannot paint them. My wife was partifularly put off by this. The sales person was at our house 30 minutes. When I told him our pricing expectations, he said they don't do jobs for that price. So I said thanks for coming, goodbye.
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