Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
How can you have respect for them?
Published on March 16, 2004 By Draginol In Current Events

The anti-war people are just anti-action.I have no respect for the position of the "anti-war" people.  They just want to make it tougher for the people who are stuck having to make real decisions.

The Bush-bashing is usually the most amusing though becaue it demonstrates the lack of rational thought by some people. Bill "multilaterialsm" Clinton suffered more terror attacks on the United States than Bush has.  After 9/11 there have been zero attacks on the United States. By contrast, under Clinton we had the USS Cole, the embassy bombings and the first WTC attack. In those cases, Clinton tried to work with "the international community" and treat the whole thing almost purely as a law enforcement excercise.

And what did such restraint do for us? 9/11 was planned during Clinton's watch. In other words, we tried the "multilateral" approach (multilateral in this case meaning having France and Germany's support since the US has had the support of dozens of nations in Iraq and Afghanistan under Bush). We tried the diplomatic approach and the result was 9/11.  And since we changed our strategy under Bush our successes have been quite strong.

After all, it wasn't the US Al Qaeda bombed on 3/11, it was Spain because they predicted, correctly, that the Spanish people would cave in and elect someone who was more willing to move back towards inaction. Al Qaeda has suffered grievous losses since 9/11 and is trying to get the pressure taken off of them.

Some people seem to make an artificial distinction between domestic murders and international murderers. If someone native to your country goes on a senseless killing spree, the reaction is to go after them aggressively and put them behind bars. Yet, if that same homicidal lunatic is foreign, you'll instantly have the protester class argue that we need to negotize with them. Understand where they're coming from. Consider what we may have done to upset them. Work with lots of other countries, particularly ones that have no real common interest with us in solving the problem to deal with these lunatics.

Look people, we're dealing with killers here. People who do things specifically to murder as many innocent people as possible. The US strategy, like it or not, has worked pretty well. Go after them directly. Eliminate their allies or potential allies. Dry up their funding. It's no coincidence that Al Qaeda went after Spain first and not say the USA or UK. Maybe thanks to the appeasement from Spain that Al Qaeda will believe (incorrectly) that the voters in the US and UK can be cowed into submission by a terrorst attack before their next election.

And yet when faced with a difficult decision we always hear about "other options" from those who are against the proposed actions by leaders. But those other options are rarely specified. For intance the inspectors had been kicked out in 1998 and no one seemed to care about inspections until the US made them an issue again.

Leadership requires coming up with a plan and carrying it out. Curling up into the fetal position under your desk may seem like a "position" but it's not. It's simply the absence of a position. Being against something without being for something instead is not a position. It's the absence of a position.

I'm all for other options. If those other options are actions are convincingly likely to have the desired affect. NOT doing something is not an option. It's simply a lack of action. If someone is murdering my neighbors, I'm not likely to consider "doing nothing" an option. I want the murders stopped. Somehow. Most people are open to hearing various ideas on how the murderer can be stopped. The anti-action people need to step up and provide realistic alternatives.

War, after all, wasn't our first option. Treating the war on terrorism as a law enforcement issue was the strategy pursued from 1992 to 2001. It results in 9/11. Treating this as a military matter from 2001 to 2004 has thus far eliminated direct attacks on the United States and forced the terrorists into going after seemingly arbitrary targets to kill civilians (I mean, heck, if you have a half dozen guys with access to explosives you could kill lots of people too, not exactly the same impact as crashing hijacks airliners into the largest buildings in the world).

After 9/11, most Americans had enough common sense to recognize that we couldn't go on indefinitely letting Saddam violate his agreements and be an open enemy of the United States. We didn't have that luxury. We knew this because 9/11 showed us that the Islamofascists would use any weapon they could get ahold of, including civilian airliners, to murder Americans. And since Saddam was an open enemy of the United States, we knew that he had every incentive to provide weapons to Al Qaeda. Maybe not imminently but at some point. So after Afghanistan it made sense to deal with Saddam before Al Qaeda could effectively regroup. And so we did.

The arguments, if they can be called that, to remove Saddam were always incredibly weak in my opinion. And the results already justified the action. Saddam is captured. By Boulbushead's argument the legitimate government of Iraq is controlled by the United States. And it was all done with only a few hundred casualties total. Simply amazing. But the anti-war people are so lame that they fixate that we didn't find stockpiles of chemical weapons. Big deal. I for one never considered stockpiles of chemcial weapons to be a significant threat. It was the future threat that Iraq posed -- i.e. a POST-sanctions Iraq posed that I was worried about. Better to deal with Saddam now while we had a reasonably good excuse to do so than later when it would be politically more difficult.

I'm particularly disappointed with the Spanish because they have, effectively, forced the heavy lifting of this war to be more on the shoulders of the British, Americans, Australians, and Poles. As if we somehow want to have to send our soldiers into battle. I think if you asked any American, Brit, Aussie, or Pole they'd tell you that they'd prefer it if we could just go home and live peacefully together. After all, it's the terrorists murdering our civilians in cold blood and making demands that we must convert to their religion or die. 

To the terrorists, this has been a war for a long time. Only in 2001 did we start to treat it as a war. Whether we treat it as a war or not, the terrorists will be murdering civilians as long as they have the power to do so. The problem isn't going to go away simply by wishing it. Remember, these guys were attacking us when Bill Clinton was President. You're not going to get a more diplomatic President (beloved by Europe's elites) than Clinton. So those who hate Bush need to get a grip and realize the problem isn't Bush. The problem is that there are murderous Islamic zealots who will stop at nothing to murder as many non-Muslims (or even Muslims if they get in the way) as they possibly can as part of their worldwide campaign to bring the world to Allah.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Mar 16, 2004
Saddam as evil as he was, was a secularist. The muslim extremists didn't like him. His mistake was that he thought that the United States wouldn't mind if he attacked Kuwait. We supported Saddam when he did his worst crimes. The war with Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. It has only increased terrorism. Iraq has open borders and it is easy for the terrorists to come in and attack Americans and their allies.

Not all action has value. Attacking Iraq was stupid. If we really wanted to attack the harborers of terrorism we would attack Saudi Arabia. But that would be really stupid. Instead we have a war we can't win using up resources we don't have, and alienating those who are normally our friends.

Vietnam was such a war. Bush didn't want to fight in that war, but now he wants our young men to fight in another war that cannot be won. Within weeks of leaving Iraq, it will explode into civil war. There are some wars that make sense, but this one is stupid.
on Mar 16, 2004
Your knowledge of history is...lacking.

First off, the United States and Britain didn't "like" the Soviet Untion in 1940. But we still aided them because he was opposing something we disliked more. If you think that Saddam wouldn't help or that Al Qaeda wouldn't accept help from the other to fight the west then you're more naive than I thought (Which is saying a lot).

You make a lot of assertions, as you tend to do, without providing any examples or evidence. You say we supported Saddam when he did the worst of his crimes? We did? We supported him using poisoned gas on his people? We supported his draining of the marshes in southern Iraq? We supported him dumping millions of gallons of oil into the gulf? We supported him setting every oil well in Kuwait on fire? We supported his prisons for Iraqi children?

But you then go on to say "The Iraq war has ntohing to do with terrorism" and you say this...why? I've outlines countless times how they are related. You never explain how I am incorrect. You just proclaim that I'm incorrect without going against any of my evidence. You say it has increased terrorism despite the obvious error of such a statement. You say we should attack Saudi Arabia but you don't say why this would be good. You say that Iraq has "open borders" that allow terrorists to attack the US despite the fact that casaulties in Iraq are incredibly low.


Who are we alienating? Germany and France? These are our friends? Since when? We exterminated millions of Germans in the 20th century. We killed more Germans than any other people. France? In what way have they been a friend since their help against the British nearly 300 years ago?


Of course, this is what one can expect of someone who believe Bush "stole" the last election.


Here's a website I think you would enjoy a great deal: http://www.democraticunderground.com/ it has all kinds of extreme left wing people who massage each other's paranoia with things like "Bush stole the election" or how the CIA made Osama Bin Laden and other such nonsense. Perhaps you should go over there and hang out. They enjoy empty and content free rhetroic.

on Mar 16, 2004
Are you telling me that I should go to another website? If I'm so dumb, then why do you bother to answer me.
on Mar 16, 2004

Sherye, you responded to my blog. I don't generally visit your blog because it's so content free IMO.

I don't think you're dumb. Heck, there are very few people on this site that I think are "dumb". I just think that your positions aren't very well thought out and that you are unaware of which areas you are lacking in knowledge.

I responded to you because, as a regular of this site you were entitled to some sort of response. If you weren't you, if you were just some anonymous person, I would have just ignored it.

I also don't think you are aware of just how far out there your views are. Heck, it wasn't until I saw the "Bush stole election" comment you made that I realized how far out there you are.

I believe your conclusions are not based on facts. I believe they are based on a personal dislike for Bush and therefore you twist the facts to fit into your own pre-defined conclusion.  I don't come to conclusions based on WHO is proposing an action. I make my conclusions based on the facts at hand. If Clinton were President and doing the same thing I would feel the same way. By contrast, I think you would have not shown anywhere near the kind of opposition you show here.

on Mar 16, 2004

I'm in a better mood now so let me address the points:


Sherrye, not all action has value. I agree. But sometimes action needs to be taken. You can't go through life advocating either no action or ineffective action. Virtually all those who opposed the war in Iraq were peopel who simply oppose action of any kind. They're the same people who argue that sanctions work. Sanctions have never worked to remove a threat in any case that I can ever remember. Castro's Cuba has been operating with sanctions for what? Going on 50 years?


You say "Attacking Iraq is stupid". This is the type of statement that makes me say that your writings are, IMO, content-free. In what way was it "stupid"? Like it or not, it is an action that accomplished the US's goals with minimal casualties to both sides. It is no longer able to provide money to suicide bombers in Israel and it can no longer actively aid any other terrorist organizations.


On a personal note, I know that I don't have to worry about some future wishy-washy President lifting sanctions against a Saddam led Iraq and them becoming a nuclear threat later down the line. And yet your answer to this is to simply proclaim this action as "stupid". No reasoning. No facts, no argument behind it. Just a proclamation.


That is why I brought up the website DemocraticUnderground. That is a blog site that is full of extreme left wing people who are so far gone that they just wallow in each other's craziness.  If you want to debate these issues, you should, at least, consider the possibility that the other side's reasons may possibly have some merit to them even if you don't agree.


Hence, I give my specific reasons for supporting the particular actions the US has done. I don't just say "Taking out Saddam was great!" I give my assertion and then follow it up with my reasons for believing that way.

on Mar 16, 2004
You are correct. I did make assertions without backing them up. Attacking Iraq is stupid because even if we win the war, Iraq is too big of a country to control. There are too many divisions between the different religions and ethnic groups to stabilize without a huge army that we are not willing to pay for. Israel took care of the nuclear threat by bombing the nuclear power plant. That is a far wiser strategy than declaring war. We supported Sadaam when he was fighting Iran. During that time he did all sorts of evil things against his people. I don't know if the government knew what he was doing but that was when he did it. I don't think that we should attack Saudi Arabia, but many of the terrorists are from there.

So even if you are correct about Iraq and terrorism, which I am not going to refute since you are thoroughly convinced about it, fighting Iraq is a guagmire that will be very hard to get out of. This is something that history will prove.
on Mar 16, 2004
By the way, I don't as a rule insult people when I disagree with them. This is something that you do on a regular basis. I like this website and find it fun to blog here, but I find it hard to read your replies because they are insulting. Consider me a future consumer of your products. Would you insult a consumer?
on Mar 16, 2004

I'm not going to play that game Sherye. If you base your product purchasing decisions on what the personality of the an employee then that's not really my problem. Because if that were a concern, I'd simply use a handle and be anonymous.


What you consider insulting and what I consider insulting may not coincide. For instance you called supporting war on Iraq "stupid". I could (and did) take that as inferring that I must therefore be stupid. After all, what kind of person supports doing "stupid" things?


That said, I don't happen to be one of thsoe people who care if people respond to my blogs. But I don't encourage people to respond to my blogs who cannot add to the discussion.


Now, getting back to teh actual content of your post:


Yes, we supported Saddam against Iran. Which, btw, supports my argument about Al Qaeda. We didn't care for Saddam but we still helped him when he was fighting Iran beause we disliked Iran even more.


As for Iraq being "too big", there's absolutely no historical evidence to support your thesis. Japan was much MUCH bigger and we managed to occupy them successfuly for decades despite real hatred on both sides (by contrast, most Iraqi's don't hate Americans).


The situation today in Iraq is better for the US than the situation was when Saddam ruled. IMO.

on Mar 16, 2004
How is the situation in Iraq better for the US better than it was when Saddam ruled?
on Mar 17, 2004

Are you serious? Well, let's just count a few off teh top of my head in no particular order:

  1. The US was able to move its forces out of Saudi Arabia which were the ostensible excuse Al Qaeda used.
  2. Lybia has given up its WMD program as a direct result.
  3. The US does not have to maintain a no fly zone above the country for the indefinite future with no benefit to the US
  4. Saddam isn't able to send money to terrorists in Israel for suicide bombers thus further perptuating the mess in the West bank.
  5. The US doesn't have to keep pushing to maintain inspections against Saddam.
  6. The US doesn't have to worry about Saddam providing aid or safe harbor to Al Qaeda
  7. The US doesn't have to worry about Saddam invading or intimidating nearby countries in a sensitive part of the world.
  8. The US doesn't have to worry about Saddam messing with oil prices to tweak the US as he did in the late 90s and in 2000.
  9. I don't have to worry about my children having to go and fight a nuclear war later on because Saddam's sons succeeded him, got nuclear weapons and began invading.
  10. The US doesn't have to maintain a large military presence in the region that provides no benefit to the US (we'll still have a big military presence fo ra long time but we gain benefits)
  11. US companies will have an advantaged place for getting oil contracts (hey, Saddam had already made deals with France, and of course I'm sure that had nothing to do with France's opposition given their great history of integrity...)
  12. The US is now in a much better position to put pressure on Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia to stop aiding Islamic extremists.

 And BTW, #12 is the principle long term benefit.

The list of beneifts for the Iraqi people is even longer.

 

on Mar 17, 2004
What bothers me is that even after the war is over and Iraq is on its way to becoming a great nation, people are still complaining about the U.S. presence. Supposedly, it's not humanitarian to finish the job now that it's happened, and we should just abandon Iraq and let it go to Hell. Sure, there's a possibility that Iraq will regress to a dictatorship again, but it's more likely to happen if we just abandon them.
on Mar 17, 2004
Yes, apparently some people would rather let the Shites, Sunis and Kurds fight it out.  What's another genocide or two right?
on Mar 17, 2004
There are two main reasons I've been against the war:

1) Our reasons shifted too much and didn't stand up to hard scrutiny.
The exception to this is the humanitarian reason, to remove a very very bad man. I agree with that reason fully, it is a positive result of what we've done. However it was the claims of WMD that were used as the primary argument for the UN going in (and later for just us and a few of our allies when the UN wouldn't go along). We also had no actual proof of terrorist connections. I know people argue that they had to be there somewhere, or that Saddam would help terrorists out in a heart-beat if provided the opportunity, but the problem is that it's all speculation. We never saw proof. It was all guess work and rumor. If you're going to invade another country, you have to provide solid proof to back up your claims. The only reason that still stands up is that Saddam was a horrible horrible leader who did horrible things to his people... But that is not reason enough to invade and conquer another nation.

2) We think we own the world.
We can not sit around dictating to other nations how they can and can not rule themselves. We took a cowboy attitude with Iraq, issuing ultimatums and using words such as "crusade" to describe our goals. The fact is, we rule our little plot of land on the planet. That's it. We do not have the right to dictate policy to every nation that has something we want. If someone decides they don't want to sell us oil they own for whatever reason, that's their call and fully within their rights. We do not have a right to the resources they hold. If we've built up a dependence on things we can not supply ourselves, it is our responsibility to lessen that dependence. The world does not owe us anything, nor do we owe them anything. Each nation is it's own responsibility, and if the government and populace are too irresponsible to exist within their means, it's no one's fault but their own.

If we are not willing to accept other nations issuing demands to us, why should they accept ones from us? What makes us so much better, or gives us the right?
on Mar 17, 2004
As spaniard, I think I should make some remarks on you comments on Spain elections. I've made an article on my blog "From the ocean...", just to let you know that not everybody here is that way you state, that 9,630,512 people (included me) voted for the PP, and I intend to go on on new articles each day.
I just wat to tell you that I haven't cried as I did the day the terrorist attack on Madrid since I did it on 9/11. That I am for the intervention on Irak as I was when Saddam kicked out the UN inspectors, on the old impeachmet days. That I think Spain should have joined the war on Irak, not only supported it, and that now the troops should remain there as long as it takes. Thant I think the only dialogue the terrorist will agree on is wether it should kill us, and definitely it's a "they or us" matter, whether it's Al-Qaeda, ETA or anyone else. That I am ashamed old Europe is again on the same think it was when war on Hitler was "Churchill's war". That I'm ashamed my poor english doesn't allow me to write more clear.
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