Brad Wardell's views about technology, politics, religion, world affairs, and all sorts of politically incorrect topics.
On-line griefers so bad you just wanna punch 'em in the nose!
Published on March 25, 2004 By Draginol In Usenet Discussions

Before there were blogs there was Usenet and before Usenet there were BBSes. And from the very start, there have always been hyper-aggressive people who take out their own personal frustrations on the world at large.

There aren't many of them, but there doesn't have to be. Just the few that are out there are enough to bring grief to other people. Being on-line as much as I am, using my real name, has made me a target of griefers over the years. When I ran BBSes 15 years ago, I occasionally had to deal with them. Sometimes they'd go after me. Sometimes they'd just sit around like a trap door spider waiting to suck the fun out of the lives of those who were unfortunate enough to encounter them.

My friend Pat, T-man (who is the genius in charge of this site's back end), has had similar experiences. One time, a griefer went too far and T-man went to his house and yanked him out the door and made it clear that there'd be real world consequences for that.

We were a lot younger then and obviously one cannot simply go and find these griefers and punch them in the nose. But boy, it's tempting sometimes. On usenet I've had people accuse me of everything from being gay to being a convicted child molester. Griefers get it down to a science knowing which buttons to push. They always seem to have an inordinate amount of time.

At various net gatherings, I've met these griefers. Of course, they weren't "griefing" me (or they wouldn't have come). But of the dozen or so griefers I've met in real life, it's always the same story: They're cowards. And I mean pathetic cowards.

Griefers aren't just detractors. They are people who intentionally go out of their way to try to upset other people. They actually do things, on purpose, just to make someone else unhappy. It is as if they are trying to absorb the happiness of others through delivering grief like some sort of parasite trying to cure their own miserable lives.

In my experience, griefers fit a very particular psychological profile:

First, they are nearly always male. I don't think I've ever met a female griefer in all my years (there's plenty of female net personalities I've encountered I didn't like but none of them intentionally went out of their way to bring pain to others for seemingly no reason).

Secondly, they're nearly always single. Which I guess isn't very surprising.

Third, they come in two major groups. The first group are the teens/young adults who practice petty evil. The kind of people who would kill a small animal for no particular reason. Petty evil. They are fairly common. An under-developed sense of empathy. They're usually physically weak. It's as if they are trying to get back at the world for all the wedgies they get at school. Momma's boys.

The other group though, at the risk of bieng politically incorrect, tend to be 45 to 55 year old white single men living on disability. Yea, I know, pretty specific. Not always are they on disability. The key ingredient are bitter men with an extensive amount of free time on their hands. They are usually quite sad. Almost Golumnesqe in their pitifulness. I usually encountered this kind at User Group meetings when I'd be demonstrating something. They wouldn't say a word to me. But I'd later see them on-line just making the lives of others miserable.

Whereas younger griefers tend to hang out on forums and in on-line games, the latter tend to show up on Usenet or spend their time terrorizing some hapless technical support person. The younger ones are brief and not subtle at all. The older ones write amazingly lengthy, vile, and kook-like diatribes.

The length and detail are how you can distinguish the young griefers from the older ones. It's all about quantity for the young griefer. Older ones focus on quality. Singling out a target and making it their mission in life to try to bring "someone down a notch or two". Writing book-like diatribes about things that have nothing to do with them. That are about unimportant things. Things that cause onlookers to wonder "I wonder what they might have made of themselves if they put their hateful energy into something constructive?" 

Regardless of the age, griefers are cowards. I mean that in the literal sense. You meet them in person and they are quiet, introverted, passive. Easily bullied and dominated by those around them. But secretly, quietly, they build their resentment of those around them into a little black ball of hate and spew it out onto the Internet. If they're going to be miserable, why shouldn't others? Maybe if they can make someone else miserable, it will make themselves not feel so pathetic in comparison.

Those of us who run net communities come to look for the type and put in safe-guards as early as we can. Since griefers are cowards, they quickly flee if they believe their power base is gone. That is why the older ones tend to live in the sanctuary of Usenet and the younger ones simply move from game to game, from fan site to fan site, from on-line community to on-line community. There are always ample targets for them to take out their pain on.

When you write an article, try to imagine that you are talking to that person there. Since I use my real name and can be "found", I have long made it my policy to imagine myself saying this in a crowded pub. If I'm not willing to say it to someone's face, I won't say it. It's advice that I highly recommend to others.

Still...even if I understand them, it is hard not to be tempted to retaliate against one's cowardly on-line tormenter. Because they would never say the vile things they write in person, in public.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Mar 25, 2004
I use my real name, location, etc., and my parents are both regular users of the site, as are many of my friends. How much more accountable can I get?

~Dan
on Mar 26, 2004

Very informative--I never knew. They seem like a worse type than hackers. The next best thing to a punch in the nose would be for them to get away from their "terrorist" activities and get layed.

By the way, where did this Opie come from? And how did he or she rack up so many power points with a couple of poems? What was the magic google word?

on Mar 26, 2004
I went back and read the poem. I guess the magic phrase was "strip club." Possibly "sex" and "lust" ah, for the old values!
on Mar 26, 2004
I totally agree with you. Of course, sometimes debate can get heated and tempers flair, but I generally wish people would be more respectful. There are real humans at the end of these machines.
on Mar 26, 2004
Isn't it curious how net cowards resemble a lot of serial killers?
on Mar 26, 2004
resemble a lot of serial killers?


Not really. There is very wide varying types of those.

Brad, I wholly agree with your article, other than certain facts: young griefers and old griefers classification, but I'm not dis-agreeing either, I just don't know enough.

I have seen them everywhere, however. Locations seen: Lego forum, wincustomize, skinz, in everquest game ( people who bring monsters/animals to someone in order to kill that person if player-kill is not allowed )...

It could be actually shorter to list sites I HAVEN'T seen them: flash forum.
on Mar 26, 2004
I was active on FidoNet before getting access to Usenet and I must say that I think that your article is spot on. One thing that particularly strikes me is that the image of presence that the griefer presents online is often much bigger than he does in person.

A productive griefer will make his presence very noticable in a BBS/Fido/Usenet/Web-forum. In real life they usually dissappear, as they lack the skills to interact with others face to face. I have too faced griefers in person, often angrily on my part. Tearing a griefer into small pieces would surely feel good in the short term but meeting the griefers in person always made me change my mental state from anger to pity. It is simply easier to ignore someone you pity than someone that rubs you the wrong way.

On the positive side, the griefers I met in person never bothered me after meeting them. Perhaps I only encountered minigriefers.
on Mar 26, 2004
I would have imagined that you would both have enough money by now to hire goons, the thought of two educated gentlemen physically attacking someone is entertaining.
on Mar 26, 2004
A interesting term 'griefers'. But I like it. I have met them many times. My particular favorites are the ones that lurk on religion newsgroups and other forums spewing their rhetoric whether it be pro-abortion, evolution, anti-religion, etc. Cowards/terrorists is another good word as well.
Sometimes though it isn't there a fine line between being a griefer and someone who is simply debating? I would imagine that for some, anyone who disagrees with them would be considered a griefer.
As for their physical attributes that is funny but hard to verify. However I think everyone, and I mean everyone has a little bit of a facade going on in their internet life don't you think? Would it be a save assumption to say that most people who spend a large amount of time online interacting with other users are quiet, introverted and passive to some extent?
on Mar 26, 2004
I agree that sgsmitty64 that it may be easy to consider a person that disagrees with you a griefer. Even though it was Brad who coined the expression, I think that a person would need multiple offences in order to earn the griefer title. Everyone has a bad day now and then and sometimes emotion overwhelms judgement.

In my opinion griefers are people that feeds on making others feel as miserable as they are. I think that they simply enjoy receiving any form of reaction from other people, even if it pure hostility.

In the Swedish tabloids over the last few years there have been quotes from five-cent-studies that claimed that people who spend a large amount of time online interacting are social in real life too. This is true from my experience also. Initial shyness disregarded, most people I have met in real life were very alike their internet persona. (if it is not altogether an act)

Griefers are probably hyperagressive but would not dare to act that way in real life. As Brad says, they are cowards.
on Mar 26, 2004
Interesting article.....though I have been using computers for about ten years, I've never been involved in the usenet/forum/community/etc. until WC for the last four months. I haven't had any personal experience with this type of net user, but have worked with a couple of people over the last twenty years that are this way on the job.
on Mar 26, 2004
I have never met a griefer, but then again I am a very likable person. I don't know why people like me, they just do for some reason. I wish I could meet one online - it would be an interesting psychological study.
on Mar 26, 2004
PoetPhilosopher, you might want to go onto usenet and put up a totally innocent post about something, you might get one or two helpful replies but then someone might accidentally spell something wrong or give a small inaccuracy in their reply (noones perfect huh) and then you will see all the griefers come out of the woodwork.

I think there are people out there that love to show off how clever they are and usenet is where alot of them lurk in the shadows.
on Mar 26, 2004
Griefers aren't trolls which are a seperate entity. Griefers specifically target specific individuals and do things that do nothing but make someone else suffer. Griefers isn't actually my term. It's used on-line pretty regularly. Griefers target people. Trolls say things designed to get a response from anyone. Griefers are more personal.
on Mar 26, 2004
dead on, frogboy. from the BBSs to the blogs, i know where you're comming from. i can't understand how so many people just wake up one day and go 'i think im going to piss some people off today'.
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