Nice to know the check list. Sadly, it will be a few more years of university before I'm certain that I can make uber enough code to work with you guys.

Maybe I'll talk to you guys in a few years time.

so college credit in C++ would suffice? I would have thought there'd be more criteria.

must finish high school first then traded school

Hm. Even with extra hours, 45 hours a week is a little much, isn't it? 37 - 40 hours a week is the norm, even for software developers. Of course, developing games usually is a bit more fun than other jobs.

With a job description like that, it has to be good!

You must be European, German if I recall. Not that there's anything wrong with that but you Europeans have it soft.

But 45 hours per week for a salaried position is actually a rather short workweek in the US these days. Typically 50, 60 or even 70 hours is often what is "required". The thing is that it's never in writing. What is technically specified is most often a 40 hour week but the unspoken message is clear and someone that doesn't put in what those around him or her are forced to put in will find themselves out of a job very quickly, weeks not months.

A few years back I worked for a startup and to reach an intermediate deadline I worked a minimun of 12 hours a day for 7 straight weeks 84+ hour weeks (i.e. 49 days). Then 3 months later to get the final product ready to ship I did 10 straight 84+ hour weeks (70 straight days). In between these peak periods one could usually slack off to about a 60 hour week.

Anyway the result was that Sun Microsystems did eventually buy the company but for pennies on the dollar and 5 years after the fact is still shipping the board that I designed for them but prior to that happened everyone except the founders and the venture capitalists had been laid off.

But what is unique in AMerican business today is the implied promise of a certain amount of loyalty. Forty, fifty years ago that used to be the norm but today that is an extreme exception. So 45 hours a week plus some loyalty sounds like an excellent position to me. Sure beats the hell out of working in Lahore.

If I was a software engineer instead of a hardware engineer I would jump at the chance.

 

Hm. If someone offered me a 50-hour week, personally - I don't know anybody who'd accept, unless the salary is VERY good. Plus you typically get either paid extra hours or extra vacation days... (in addition to the 28 minimum a year). Add to that the fact that health insurance is partly paid by the employer (until you reach a high salary level)...

Yes, I think I'm quite happy to stay working in Germany at the moment.

 

Back on topic, though. A friend of mine is a game developer for MMORPGs. Server backend, but still, very fascinating stuff. Since Stardock develops games for fun (i.e. not as main source of company profit), I can only recommend to anybody fresh out of university to take that chance. Much better learning and working environment than the so called big names in the business, I'd wager.

Yeah. I've never received a dime of overtime in my life and I graduated from MIT and been employed as an electrical engineer since 1979. As far as vacation I get exactly none but I do get 8 holidays a year. My medical insurance costs are not quite $1500 per month but at least it is paid with pre-tax money.

My current position is much slower paced and I can usually get by with 50 hours per week although crunch time still occurs where this shoots up to unlimited. But they compenstate by sending out for pizza.

I think during crunch time or other times you should fly in a very talented Licensed Massage Therapist as a bonus for your crew.

You know where to find me.

Good to see Stardock expanding! The world needs more games from Stardock, GPG and Ironclad.

Ditto. 

I also agree that 45 hours for a normal workweek is quite reasonable in the USA.  Salaried people are generally expected to put in a little extra when needed and "crunch time" is pretty much a given.  Many companies ask for more.

 

Wow.  37 hours a week? That's not even full-time in the US.

Curious, how much does an entry level game programmer make exactly? What are the benefits? medical/401k/stock options? I noticed you said some make 30k, so starting out you may only get that much?

To throw out some numbers, an entry level fresh college graduate who gets a position as a Software Engineer @ cisco will make 62,500 in NC (research triangle park) and 75,000 in MA. You could get more than this but base salary that's what you get. They are kind of selective though because they really want someone with at least a 3.5 or greater and also to have work experience which is a must I think in today's market.

I still have a year to graduate but I've been offered several jobs and they all are in this range, how does a game developer at stardocks compare?

I also worked for IBM for 1.5 years and they offer a little less it seems, around 59,000 in NC.
Also cisco's average hours they say is around 40-45, IBM on the other hand, they say 60 hours is a normal work week! I said screw that.

You can see my resume and website here:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/c/s/css204/

If you don't want to publicly state anything you can e-mail me @ css204@psu.edu

thanks!

As you can see salaries are very location dependent. I live in MA (Concord) and I can tell you that 75K pretty much anywhere in eastern MA is barely a living wage (unless you're still living with your parents). I suspect that the cost of living in Plymouth, MI is far more reasonable. Plus after you've been around the block a few times you come to realize that it's hard to put a price on even just a little bit of loyalty. Just starting out like you are it's hard to have that perspective but I would trade a fair percentage of my income for just a bit of employer/employee loyalty.

Something to be grateful for if you're on salary, but hardly reasonable, IMO. One of our biggest themes for public complaining in the US is "family values" stuff, and the single greatest burden on families is the ludicrous amount of time most parents must spend in the workplace. Our per-person productivity has risen drastically in the past few decades, but instead of seeing that lead to more leisure (family) time, it seems to have just facilitated the lack of two-way loyalty that once underpinned our salary systems. Why let the whole team have more of their own time when you could just lay a few off and whip the others harder?

That rant aside, I have to again accuse Brad of being a most un-corporate corporation owner. If I had less love for my birthplace, appropriate skills, and a tolerance for ridiculous winters, I'd be pitching hard for a gig up there.